This is a big taboo subject in the DJ world…no one really likes to talk about what they make…until they are drunk anyway…lol
DJ’s in my town(Las Vegas) make a lot…its pretty out of line with the rest of the US. Local guys pull a grand or more a night and big names usually make quite a bit…3-8k per gig…and the really big names make far more…from what I’ve been told by them around 8-15k. Then you have the Tiesto level…25-50k a show. Tiesto played 3 sold out shows here Memorial Day weekend and I can imagine he made 15-20k for each. Its deserved simply because he is a massive draw and the clubs makes WAY more than they are paying him. It boils down to economics…how much is the club making? If entry is 30 bucks and drinks are 15 bucks and bottle service starts @ 300 per, then the club is raking in the money…so the DJ should get paid. Booking a big rock band costs just as much, its entertainment either way.
They have pool parties all summer long at the hotels here and the guys playing those (Erick Morillo, Carl Cox, Donald Glaude etc) make bank! Donald said he is clearing 50k a month now…but he is a hard working dude and plays a lot of gigs.
Then again I talked to a friend who is part of Phunk Investigation and they only ask for 1500USD plus expenses which I think is really low for them…so it depends on what style you play, how many hits you have, venue and so on.
Oakey has his residency here in Vegas and he makes a LOT for that.
It seems you get paid more in the US, yet you have to make a name for yourself in Europe first to get those big gigs here. There is money to be made for sure…but its a relatively small circle making 90% of the money.
The things is its very hard to break the mold these days and become a ‘uber’ dj. The amount of average DJ’s swamping the scene is now beyond a joke and software like ableton makes it worse (just an opinion). Producing really is the only way to get yourself noticed. The only person I have seen in recent years to have rocketed to fame is deadmau5 although cant see that lasting long.
I bet theres some serious after partys in Vegas! 
I have never understood why people think software like ableton, serato, and vdj make you less of a dj. Beat matching is not this extremely challenging skill that people make it out to be. If you able to set up ableton then your able to beat match.
If we used the philosophy of it has to be hard to make you credible, then people should be griping about people using cds instead of vynil. This is no attack at you just my opinion on this never ending subject of what makes a dj. If someone has a banging set, I could care less if there not counting beats.
More people just means you have to try harder. I just got a job out of 1400+ people. Nothing is impossible if you work your “radio edit” off. I hate to keep referencing Jon, it’s like I’m in love with him or something 
. He said it best when he said, you can make a good living doing this, but you have to dedicate EVERYTHING to it. The people he knows, as well as I, live, eat, breath, and “radio edit” dance music. I love the stuff more than 99% of the people out there, but I don’t have that kind of dedication. Therefor, I’m one of those few that does this for enjoyment and learning(i rarely play out anymore). So if I release a track, or get heard and hit it big, then it was meant to be! But we all know the truth, you have better odds of getting hit by lightning or winning the lottery. HARD WORK is the only way to guarantee success in anything… Which means if you want it bad enough, you’ll get it if you never give up.
Raymond
BTW. Okenfluff can’t DJ for “radio edit”, and his productions are barely his. I used to hang with that putz when he came to Dallas back in the day cuz he was hot for my friend Amy who was always afraid to go out alone with him… Okenfarce is like anything else that is over branded. If you shove it down peoples throats enough, they are eventually going to accept it. Marketing 101
“radio edit” I’ll censor myself if I’m going to be censored! Love ya Kev! 
doing it for the love is exactly why real djing will become extinct in a way.
Like most things in the world you need to have class structure. Because if you dont then the standards will slip. Its alrite people who say they are brilliant djs, who use ableton live or can beatmix. this doesnt mean you are going to be a great dj. At the end of the day it is all about people enjoying themselfs on the dance floor. the dj has to be almost part of the crowd. knowing what to play when and what style to play where.
If you dont ask for money when doing gigs then you are branding yourself invaluable. and when you are invaluble then why would anyone give you anychance of being at the top of the game. therefore you will only get the chance to play small venues and never get the chance to show the world how good you are.
Im a little salty about the whole “DJ’s that use Ableton aren’t really DJ’s” or “DJ’s that use Ableton are crappy DJ’s”. I’m sorry…I don’t want to take this too far but I really think its pure ignorance. Anyone can beat match. I can teach just about anyone how to do it. Phasing your records and reading a crowd is what DJing is all about. I personally know of one very very big DJ that uses Ableton Live to perform and he is phenomenal. Did I mention he produces and performs for a living and makes unbelievable money?
Besides, Deadmau5 uses Ableton Live to perform. Is he a crappy DJ or producer?
Sorry for ranting…
i agree with that about djs arent djs if they use ableton comment. It doesnt mean anyone is less talented on technical skills. Like some people can beatmix perfect but havent a clue how to mess with fx, play 6 parts of diffent tracks at once and remix on the fly. I dont think that the way you deliver your set is the most important thing, its the set you deliver.
Personally i use all, ableton, cdjs and traktor for different stuff all the time. For me they have there places in what kind of set i want to do. But i love to beatmix with cdjs because it is hard to beat standing there when you have perfectly match and lined up 2 tunes, mixing spot on with a beer in your hand and a crowd in front of you cheering.
All I said was that software such as ableton is a reason why there are so many new djs swamping the scene as it is so simple and quick to use. Thus making everyone a dj within an hour and wanting a piece of the pie (even for free) which correct me if im wrong was an issue in this post? I did not say that using such software makes you a lesser dj! Hope that clears that up.
Seriously though we do not need to get into this. Digital is here and its here to stay. I use cdj’s with ableton and was a beta tester for traktor scratch in its early days so understand the potential of such software.
[quote]Besides, Deadmau5 uses Ableton Live to perform. Is he a crappy DJ[/quote]
Surly you could have picked a better example than deadmau5 
Suppose a benefit of using ableton is that it allows you to wear a big mouse hat during your set!
Just joking
[quote]g-hunter (7/30/2009)[hr]Suppose a benefit of using ableton is that it allows you to wear a big mouse hat during your set!
Just joking[/quote]
Haha…Nice!
Cant be arsed to read all three pages so apologies if someone’s already said the same as i’m about to say now.
How much you get paid really depends on how many punters you bring to the event. If you don’t really have a name for yourself yet or a following then i wouldn’t expect you to get paid much, if anything.
In London they have a ‘rent-a-crowd’ policy where they don’t book DJs on skill but how many people that DJ can bring / how many tickets that DJ can sell. Which is ridiculas as i’ve seen some absolutely shiiiiiiiiite DJs who can’t even beatmatch for toffee, let alone work his mix or crowd… however that’s a little off topic.
Yeah basically I always vary my pay depending on the size of the event but i have a usual average because i’m pretty established. When i first started out i had to do so many free gigs it was unreal.
If you’re looking for a good average then the average going rate for up and coming DJs is £50 if you’re doing and hour or two. If it’s a 5 hour stint (depending on what kinda DJ you are really) then you can charge around £150/£200+.
The sad truth is however if you DJ in commercial clubs like Luminar Ltd you’ll get paid much more.
As someone mentioned you ask for what you think your worth, don’t undercut yourself. Of course the bigger matter is how big a draw you are in the first place. You have to take the market you are in into the equation to, it seems UK DJ’s don’t generally get paid much until they are at the middle to high level. DJ’s are dime a dozen…great DJ’s are not.
Seems to me you if your DJ skills are up to pro level then you should either set up your own night and go that way or focus on production so you can get noticed and start pulling the bigger paying gigs. With the advent of social networking sites and so on its very possible to get noticed fast if you have the quality tracks and right connections. Deadmau5, Chris Lake etc prove that.
As for the Ableton debate…its pointless. Knowing how to beat match is meaningless…its just a tool…a minor part of the pie. I’ve seen many big names who trainwreck all over the place or just totally phone it in yet no one even notices(one’s name rhymes with Smokenfold). The only people saying Ableton DJ’s aren’t “real” DJ’s are other DJ’s who are clinging to what they believe is a big part of DJing when it is in fact just a basic skill like stepping on the gas while driving. Do you really care what other DJ’s think?
Saying if you don’t beatmatch then you aren’t a real DJ is like saying a rally driver isn’t a real race driver since he doesn’t use a clutch.
DJing is about mixing, programming and track selection…all of which carry over to whatever media you choose to go with. In the end I’d rather hear a DJ play good tracks in the right order over a guy who can mix perfectly.
And yes…there are some crazy parties here in Vegas…it never seems to end. lol Be sure and hit me up if any of u guys roll into sin city.
[quote]sdg (7/31/2009)[hr]
Seems to me you if your DJ skills are up to pro level then you should either set up your own night and go that way or focus on production so you can get noticed and start pulling the bigger paying gigs. [/quote]
Too true in this day and age. A lot of the times, even if you do sort yourself gigs with promoters when youre just starting out you’ll also have to do a lot of warm up sets, so you’ll be playing to bar staff and maybe 1 person on the dancefloor anyways lol.
[quote]sdg (7/31/2009)[hr]
As for the Ableton debate…its pointless. Knowing how to beat match is meaningless…its just a tool…a minor part of the pie. I’ve seen many big names who trainwreck all over the place or just totally phone it in yet no one even notices(one’s name rhymes with Smokenfold). The only people saying Ableton DJ’s aren’t “real” DJ’s are other DJ’s who are clinging to what they believe is a big part of DJing when it is in fact just a basic skill like stepping on the gas while driving. Do you really care what other DJ’s think? [/quote]
In my time as a DJ and through my days in the vinyl period, i have to admit since CDJs come about (and their ease to pick up) there has been many more DJs than there used to be. Before when it was Vinyl it used to take years and solid dedication to pick up even the most basic skill of beatmatching. But because of this you’d only get the people who had nothing but true real passion and love for DJing. There are waaaayyy too many ‘glory boys’ about now who arn’t in it for the love but for the ‘glamour’ and ‘look at me’, because mixing with CDJs was much easier. With the ‘drag and drop’ method on Ableton, yes i understand now you still have to get the timing right and ‘mix’ them, but i’m sure it wouldnt take you much more then a week (if that) to pick that up. So how many more ‘glory boys’ who only ever play the beatport top 10 do we really need? It’s very unhealthy for the scene.
Sure i see the value of letting ableton do the beatmatching for you, but if you’re good enough then beatmatching should only take seconds to do anyways. I dont even think about it, it’s like driving a car, second nature and barely takes me any time at all, so i can still spend time doing DJ tricks, accapellas, scratching, thinking of my tune selection, watching / reading and crowd reacting.
I mean what next? A program to do the mixing and tune selection for you?
Don’t get me wrong, i LOVE ableton and the next step for me is going LIVE, using APC40 and synth keyboard, hardware effects unit, but i just don’t see the value of someone turning up with a laptop and a controller and mixing tune into tune. If it’s samples and making tunes up on the fly like what Psycatron do then sure, thats awesome. But tune into tune, must be so boring for both the ‘dj’ and the crowd.
Lets not forget that “tune into tune” is traditional DJing. I have yet to have anyone be bored from my sets…quite the contrary. People go to clubs to dance and have a good time, most could care less about the DJ remixing and using effects and so on. Frankly most club punters couldn’t tell the difference between the original track and whatever the DJ is doing to manipulate it anyway! Only other DJ’s care about that sort of thing. Actually what you are saying is what Deadmau5 was saying when he called DJ’s “cun&s”. He thinks track to track DJing is boring…well, if it wasn’t for that he wouldn’t have a damn job! He thinks his sets which consist of 90% his tracks are interesting? I would rather hear a good simple track to track set than some wanker up there thinking everyone is hanging on his every move while he fiddles with knobs and so on. THAT is boring in my opinion. That is where the DJ superstar attitude came from in the first place. It used to be back in the day that no one even faced the DJ…they would face each other and dance the night away.
Its about the party to me…I play what I want, when I want and its all about the flow of the mix. I do it because I love music and it takes me to another place where I can forget all my troubles and just melt into the beats.
I’ve been playing guitar and doing vocals for about 15 years and I can say that being up on stage singing and playing guitar is a hellava lot more difficult than any DJing so I don’t feel the need to reinvent the wheel as far as that goes.
Certainly guys like Richie Hawtin and the like are pushing things forward as far as live PA…but that isn’t for me. I can appreciate a producer dropping his own tracks and perhaps remixing them in an interesting way but overall it should be about everyone enjoying themselves and not all about just the DJ. I’m old skool when it comes to my philosophy of dance parties…its ALL about the flow of the night and where you take the emotion of the music.
Just my take on things…
[quote]sdg (8/2/2009)[hr]Lets not forget that “tune into tune” is traditional DJing. I have yet to have anyone be bored from my sets…quite the contrary. People go to clubs to dance and have a good time, most could care less about the DJ remixing and using effects and so on. Frankly most club punters couldn’t tell the difference between the original track and whatever the DJ is doing to manipulate it anyway!
[/quote]
Of course, that’s because if it’s done well then it WONT be noticable. It’s just like in production, you can put a bass, a lead and all that jazz together but your track still wont have that sparkle without all the automation, EQ manipulation, FX and everything else that no one that isn’t a producer will notice. So what are you saying? That we should have a program to make tunes for us too?? Good DJing is like the Automation, the EQ manipulation and the added FX, a good DJ will bring those tracks to life and bring the dancefloor to life. Otherwise we may as well just stick on a compilation CD or a jukebox instead of paying good money for DJs.
[quote]sdg (8/2/2009)[hr]
Only other DJ’s care about that sort of thing. Actually what you are saying is what Deadmau5 was saying when he called DJ’s “cun&s”. He thinks track to track DJing is boring…well, if it wasn’t for that he wouldn’t have a damn job! He thinks his sets which consist of 90% his tracks are interesting? I would rather hear a good simple track to track set than some wanker up there thinking everyone is hanging on his every move while he fiddles with knobs and so on. THAT is boring in my opinion. [/quote]
Yeah i agree, i seen Deadmau5 play and although the music was wicked and i had a good night, his stage presence was SHT, he didn’t look up at the crowd once, didn’t interact and was so disjointed from the crowd he may as well have not been there, a mix CD from him would have been just as usefull.
If you’ve ever seen someone play like Eric Morrillo, Eddie Halliewell to name just two, they know how to work a crowd, work a set and grab every single punter by the balls / clunge and make sure they walk out that club thinking 'F** ME’.
THATS A DJ.
[quote]sdg (8/2/2009)[hr]
That is where the DJ superstar attitude came from in the first place. It used to be back in the day that no one even faced the DJ…they would face each other and dance the night away. [/quote]
I hate it so much playing to crowds like that, there is no atmosphere, no connection, no vibe and no party. You get crowds like this at Luminar Ltd (Oceana / Liquid & Envy / Ect) Clubs and other commercial clubs. They’re aweful.
[quote]sdg (8/2/2009)[hr]
Its about the party to me…I play what I want, when I want [/quote]
This is the attitude of many of those ‘glory boys’ who i was talking about earlier. Now don’t get me wrong, i’m not calling you one because i don’t know you, but that quote right there is what a ‘glory boy’ would say. I’ve seen many of them, mainly in London clubs, they dont give a sh*t what the crowd wants, they just play for themselves and expect everyone else to enjoy it too. They’re not playing for the crowd, they’re playing for themselves. It emptys dancefloors.
[quote]sdg (8/2/2009)[hr]
Just my take on things…
[/quote]
I appreciate and value that, we are of course all entitled to our own opinions, regardless of whether others agree or disagree. After all, that’s what makes us human.
[quote]Lets not forget that “tune into tune” is traditional DJing. I have yet to have anyone be bored from my sets.[/quote]
Your the first ableton user who has truthfully admitted they simply mix in/mix out tracks in there sets and am grateful of your honesty. What irritates me is when digital djs say “its not about beatmatching, its about remixing on the fly” and then simply mix in mix out!
Can I ask though, when you use ableton like this for djing are you not board between mixes? I remember when I got ableton 5 and I thought right im going to get into this digital djing business, got myself a laptop, nuo4 mixer and a remote sl. Within a month I was back to cdjs because 1) couldnt handle the carry on of warp marking tracks and 2) the sheer boredom of waiting between mixes (which usually results in people over-using effects/loops improperly, you know who you are ). I imagine this is the reason deadmau5 says he is so board of conventional mixing with ableton.
Well I will explain where I’m coming from - I simply mix between tracks because that is how I like to do it. I like the traditional method of DJing and doing incredibly clean and smooth mixes. If you know your house history you know how DJing started and how it came to be what it is now. Its been track to track for 99% of its history. There is nothing wrong with that. It takes a lot of skill in my opinion to pick the right songs at the right time and mix them well.
I am of the mind that the producer spent a lot of time to get a track the way it is and I don’t care to screw with it too much. I appreciate the tracks for what they are. This isn’t to say I don’t appreciate a DJ who manipulates the tracks in a tasteful way and I do this myself a bit(in a clean way most would never notice) but I prefer to let the music speak for itself and I’m unimpressed with a guy up there twiddling knobs or pretending to twiddle knobs in between songs(yes I’ve seen the big jocks twiddling knobs on channels I know were not on).
In answer to your question, no I don’t get bored and I warp all my tracks in one sitting…usually 50 or so at a time. It takes me about 40 seconds to warp a track…its second nature. So anyway, for gigs, once the track is playing I enjoy myself…chat with people…drink…dance…just enjoy the music with everyone else. I don’t feel the need to act like I’m doing something when nothing needs doing. Should I be up there with two hands on the board rocking back and forth like I’m doing something? I find that ridiculous. Most DJ’s are standing there pretending to twiddle, head cocked over with one ear in the phones etc…I just don’t do that…I do my own thing. I don’t even use phones most of the time, I don’t need to…I know my tracks so well I can mix them in very clean without prelistening.
I grew up watching guys like Sasha & Digweed, Chemical Brothers, Oakenfold etc just stand there…so that doesn’t bother me so much. Again, its about the music with the focus off the DJ. I tend to be a lot more energetic…I lose myself in the music and just have a good time. That is what I mean when I say its about the party. The DJ is not the star, he is conducting the vibe. The people are the star.
Certainly an amazing DJ can work a room and bring it to an incredible level by playing the right tracks in the right way(such as Morillo etc) and that is what I try to do. I just don’t buy into this theory of the DJ “playing to the crowd” per se. I don’t think DJ’s have some magic skill they use to “read the crowd” to pick what track comes next…in fact most seem to mix in what they think will work with the next song or what will beatmatch with the next track and have no forethought regarding the mix as a whole…its all “on the fly” which in my mind doesn’t create the best mixes. You will never hear me bring a beat in just for a second to see if it works…that is super tacky to me. Of course I adjust my track selection according to the venue and energy but that is more of an after thought. I don’t stick to one genre since I’m producing and playing deep house, electro, funky house, tech, minimal and big room techno. I break that into about 3 different styles of mixes, so it depends what kind of gig it is. I’ve had people come up to me after gigs and say wow you looked like you were having such a good time that it made me really enjoy myself even more…so am I bored? Hardly. DJing is better than “working” and I’ll take it over anything else any day of the week!
I just play what I like without regard to if its unpopular or too popular or whatever and I have yet to make a “bad” mix. Some are better than others but they all have something going on, somewhere I’m trying to take them or something I’m trying to express. It’s more a personal thing to me of how I’m feeling and I just let the crowd come along for the ride so to speak. I don’t mean that in a cocky way at all, I just know my strengths and weaknesses. Feel free to listen to any of my mixes on mixdepot, I have 150 or so on my site and I’ve been the top downloaded DJ on there since I started putting mixes on there(not that its any indication of anything special but it does that show people are obviously getting what I’m up to). I record them all live so what you get live at a gig or from a released mix is the same.
I can very easily remix on the fly or do a complete live PA…its not a technical issue, I just prefer to DJ in a traditional way. Too much fiddling annoys me. Simple is many times the key to great music. I learned this playing guitar. I was into metal so I learned to play anything and everything, then grunge came along and changed my ideas about playing guitar. Then I got into stuff like Helmet, Sepultura etc…simple became more effective. Since I’ve played in bands for years I don’t feel the need to “perform” when it comes to DJing…if I feel the need for that I will do that with a rock band. Does that make any sense? I do have some live PA’s planned with vocalists but that’s about as far as I care to take that sort of thing.
Now, as for beatmatching - as I mentioned I feel it is nothing more than a tool. There is no advantage to using CDJ’s in my mind so why bother? I suppose you can bring less equipment since you don’t need your laptop but I really love using Live, its very intuitive and visual which works well for me since I’m a very visual person. My tracks are arranged according to color…each genre has a color and so on. I agree that most Ableton guys say “oh but you can remix on the fly” etc…and they perhaps don’t really know how to do that yet but they see that possibility. I am just honest about it, I have no desire to do that when I play gigs.
Again you have to remember why people go to clubs in the first place. Is it to be bedazzled by the DJ with his twiddling/remixing skills or just to dance, meet girls/boys and get their drink on? As they say “house is a spiritual thing”. I agree with this 100%. Its my escape, my release.
I use my twiddling skills in the studio…but for gigs its about creating a groove and keeping the party hoppin’.
I don’t expect any of you to agree with me…most don’t and in fact I usually don’t even talk about this stuff with other DJ’s since I know their feelings…but I like this forum and figure whatever…I do what I do because I have a lot of passion for it and that is what drives me. Take it or leave it.
One of the beautiful things about music is its a personal thing…everyone has their own opinions and ways of doing things…whatever floats your boat…just keep rockin’.