[quote]jonsloan (16/08/2011)[hr]That’s pretty harsh for sure. The sad thing is that the other sentences will not be proportional to these. If incitement merits 4 years then surely the act of rioting should be 8 or 10 years. How much do you want to be it’s not?[/quote]
I think people caught actually instigating will get more than 10 years. They are going to come down really hard on everyone involved.
[quote]jjdejong0 (16/08/2011)[hr]
Teachers cant do anything to little scrotes [/quote]
I used to get the sh*t kicked out of me at my school and ended up spraining both my ankles at the same time by my PE teacher - only thing that taught me was not to trust authority - oh I was 8 at the time
[quote]and police cant do anything to big scrotes. [/quote]
Tell the family of the guy who shot, that lit this off, or the guy who was a paper vendor and the Brazillian who took a tube journey [/quote]
Luckily we don’t live in a police state (yet)
[quote]There is a giant culture of yobs and wasters in the UK. They live in a terrible cycle of living on benefits, crime and enpregnating woman and then leaving them which in turn produces more yobs and the cycle repeats.[/quote]
REally should not read the Daily Mail - laughing aside - this is totally exaggerated - most of my clients you would put in this category and if I am honest I would say I see 5% who do - but the others are law biding people who are just trying to cope, poorly eductaed, live in areas where mortality rate is higher than others around the county and very little non-skilled work
[quote]Now I have no idea how to solve these social issues bit I do think police need to be able to enforce the law and not worry about these awfull scum of the earth left wing liberals and human rights activists because dont get it confused, these are the same people that want to let a pedofile move in next door to you and your family and not tell you about it because they believe even someone who has molested a child, or raped someone or murdered someone deserve a second chance…[/quote]
Err I am one of these human rights guys and though you have thrown in a massive bolder into this discussion, I would say that the laws which are probably coming into place concerning pedos/sex attackers are ones I support as it is being well thought out and not bowing down to public and media pressure
I have to say, I don’t like the long sentences they are dishing out, but I do understand why they are doing it.
There are two groups of people that were involved. Criminals that do not give a fuc k and lots of people with questionable values. Come down really hard on everyone this time and next time the majority will not get involved, making it easier to deal with.
Fck 4 years - thats a very long hangover
Lol didnt the guy who got killed and started all this off have a gun? Didnt the brazilian that got shot run into a tube station with a packpack and run away from the police after they continually told him to freeze and stop running? Also didnt this happen around the time that Londons tube stations got attacked by terrorists?
The thing with you is that your never happy, right now your shouting that the police didnt do enough, but lets say the police came in straight away in Tottenham beating the **** out of yobs with tear gas, rubber bullits and watercannons which in turn would mean no mass riots then you would be on here crying about police brutality.
You want me to talk to the family of the guy who got shot, but why dont you talk to the family of,that guy that got killed for asking some yobs to move away from his property. Or mabey you could talk to my friend, he got brutally attacked whilst walking home doing absolutely nothing. He has a nice big scar accross his chest.
But in essence why should law abiding citizens who pay taxes fund these yobs and wasters who domt do anything all day every day and when they do do something you can take it that there up to no good. Also dont give me bull**** about how their poor or cant get a job. EVERYONE can get a job its just people feel that this life, this world, this society OWES them something and even though theyflunked school, have a criminal record and no qualifications they still feel they are too good for a job like picking up rubbish or cleaning toilets etc. A job is a job…
Also slender surely you realise that schools today are very different to when you went to school I mean they have electricity now for one but all jokes aside, the mentality of youth today is very bad compared to how it used to be. I mean I look at my parents, when they were at school if they did something wrong theyd get the cain, I think in essence that a firm discipline wether its from teachers but more importantly the parents is key to trying to tackle this problem…
Also slender surely you realise that schools today are very different to when you went to school I mean they have electricity now for one but all jokes aside, the mentality of youth today is very bad compared to how it used to be. I mean I look at my parents, when they were at school if they did something wrong theyd get the cain, I think in essence that a firm discipline wether its from teachers but more importantly the parents is key to trying to tackle this problem…
[quote]jjdejong0 (16/08/2011)[hr] Didnt the brazilian that got shot run into a tube station with a packpack and run away from the police after they continually told him to freeze and stop running?[/quote]
No he did not run from the police and he didn’t have a backpack (or a large coat as the police initially claimed) and he wasn’t given any verbal warnings. They ran onto a train and shot him.
For someone who doesn’t know what they are talkng about you have very strong opinions.
Well sorry if I wasnt fully aware but it just seems a bit strange and random that police would just run onto a train and shoot someone? Why him? Why not the guy sat next to him etc…
[quote]jjdejong0 (16/08/2011)[hr]Well sorry if I wasnt fully aware but it just seems a bit strange and random that police would just run onto a train and shoot someone? Why him? Why not the guy sat next to him etc…[/quote]
He came out of a flat which was on the terror list - but the suspects had moved out ages before - they followed him on to a bus and then on to the tube - why they let someone on a tube train if they suspected him having a bomb is beyond me
Armed police then followed him on to the train and shot him stone dead - I suppose they were scared to death that he was going to let off the bomb - it was clearly a error high up - ofcourse no one got prosecuted
It just doesnt make sense, I cant see how british police would just stone cold shoot someone dead. What was the polices defense?
[quote]jjdejong0 (16/08/2011)[hr]It just doesnt make sense, I cant see how british police would just stone cold shoot someone dead. What was the polices defense?[/quote]
They thought he was a terrorist
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Jean_Charles_de_Menezes[/url]
And the news vendor
[url]G20 policeman escapes charges over news vendor's death during protests | Daily Mail Online
[quote]jjdejong0 (16/08/2011)[hr]It just doesnt make sense, I cant see how british police would just stone cold shoot someone dead. [/quote]
This I agree with you on. It doesn’t, and never will, make any sense.
[quote]jjdejong0 (16/08/2011)[hr]What was the polices defense? [/quote]
They kind of lied about it, and destroyed evidence. And when it all came out, they paid out a pathetic £100,000 compensation.
I should point out that I don’t think this is the same kind of thing as what happened with Mark Duggan.
Yeah Mark Duggan had a gun didnt he?
Its ok Jan you may be pleased to know the police up north killed a bodybuilder by tazering him 3 times in his flat last night - justice served
A bit of fun
[hr]
UK: The Stench of a Police State
The events of the last 12 days are a warning to the working class in Britain and internationally. The state repression and right-wing hysteria unleashed in response to youth rioting in London and other cities reveal the preparations of the ruling class for police-state forms of rule.
The riots were triggered by the police execution of Mark Duggan, a black 29-year-old father of four, in Tottenham, north London on August 4, followed by an unprovoked police assault on a peaceful protest over his killing two days later. Almost a fortnight later, no officer has been identified, let alone charged, for these crimes.
Instead, the political elites who sanctioned the looting of public funds to bail out the banks and the super-rich, and who covered up the illegal phone hacking of Rupert Murdoch’s media empire, have sought to whip up a lynch mob atmosphere against the “criminality” and “immorality” of working class youth.
Cheered on by the Labour Party, Prime Minister David Cameron and his Conservative-Liberal Democrat government have organized vicious state repression, authorizing the use of water cannons and plastic bullets and the possible use of the army against further social unrest.
Basic democratic rights have been thrown to the winds. The presumption of innocence has been jettisoned as police carry out mass arrests, with those detained subject to show trials presided over by courts acting directly at the behest of the authorities.
Some 3,000 people, the majority aged between 16 and 24, have been rounded up in sweeps across the capital and elsewhere, with police battering down the doors of people’s homes for what are, in the main, petty misdemeanours. The names and photographs of people not even charged with any offence - let alone found guilty - are broadcast daily by the media. Juvenile defendants, some as young as 11, have been stripped of their right to anonymity.
Magistrates have been told they can “ignore the rule book” on sentencing norms, following what the chair of one London magistrates court inadvertently described as a government “directive.” Over 1,500 people have to date been dragged before courts - in some instances sitting for 24 hours at a time - where, with paperwork barely completed and a shortage of solicitors, the most vindictive and punitive sentences are being handed down.
Even though many of those appearing in court have no previous convictions, over two-thirds have been denied bail. Mothers and pregnant women have been incarcerated for six months for handling stolen goods. So too has a student, with no criminal record, for stealing bottles of water worth £3.50.
They are just the first of many others facing summary justice. Hundreds more young people are being remanded for months at a time to await trial before crown courts that can impose more draconian punishments, including up to ten years for rioting.
Collective punishment is the order of the day, with reprisals underway against the family members of those allegedly involved in the disturbances. Without any proof of guilt, mothers and young children are being served with notices of eviction from their council housing, while plans are made to strip people accused of involvement in the riots of their welfare benefits, even if they are not convicted of any offence.
Last week it was revealed that as the disturbances swept London, police broke into encrypted social messaging networks, gaining access to the mobile phones of hundreds of people and their messages. They had even prepared to close down BlackBerry messaging and Twitter. Simultaneously, the government brought in MI5 and the giant eavesdropping national security centre GCHQ to access electronic communications.
This same ruling elite sings the praises of the social media to undermine governments in other countries when it suits its foreign policy interests. It promoted the so-called “twitter” revolution in Iran as part of US-backed efforts to overthrow President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and install a more pro-Western regime. On its own turf, however, it reacts ruthlessly to any form of communication not controlled by the state.
All this is legitimized by the branding of working class youth as “feral rats” and “wild beasts.” Anything now passes as acceptable discourse, as representatives of both the right and “left” of official bourgeois politics denounce a “criminal underclass,” supposedly generated by the welfare state and “multi-culturalism.” Similar statements can be found in the fascistic manifesto issued by Anders Behring Breivik before he slaughtered 76 people, mainly youth, in Norway last month.
On the BBC, the historian David Starkey recently proclaimed that the proto-fascist Tory politician Enoch Powell was correct when he warned in the 1960s that immigration would lead to civil unrest. Powell’s mistake was to consider that this would be the result of inter-racial violence, Starkey asserted, when what has actually happened is that white working class youth “have become black,” taken over by a “black” culture that has “intruded in England,” which is “why so many of us have this sense literally of a foreign country.”
Though Starkey characteristically uses racial terms to denote the targets of his hatred, he clearly is using the term “black” to denounce all working class youth.
This hostility is shared by the liberal establishment and the corrupt purveyors of identity politics. One-time civil liberty advocates such as Ian Dunt, editor of politics.co.uk, declare that their previous injunctions against authoritarian measures must be abandoned. Having caught “a glimpse of the breakdown of society,” Dunt writes, we “must show we understand the need for tougher sanctions.”
Ken Livingstone and Dianne Abbott, prominent representatives of Labour’s so-called “left,” call for greater police numbers and the use of water cannons, while its minority commentators, who for years have milked racial politics to feather their nests, demand greater repression. Derrick Campbell, chief executive of race equality in Sandwell, West Midlands, calls for youth to be birched.
The hysteria sweeping the political elite cannot be attributed solely to last week’s unrest. The bourgeoisie is aware that it has entered a second stage in the global crisis of capitalism that will exacerbate the class divisions already exposed across Europe, the Middle East and internationally, producing enormous shocks and upheavals.
They see in the disturbances in England only a foretaste of what is to come and are panicked by their own political unpreparedness. In private, they have asked themselves again and again how much longer the Labour Party, the trade unions and the life-style “left” can contain popular opposition to deteriorating social conditions and savage spending cuts. In the eruption of social anger among the youth they see a frightening precursor to a much broader movement of the working class.
Their reaction to the riots makes clear that their response to the eruption of class struggles against the economic catastrophe caused by the failure of the capitalist system will be to junk democratic rights and rely on naked state violence.
The most far-reaching political conclusions must be drawn. Only the revolutionary overthrow of capitalism can provide a way out for the working class and the youth from a future of poverty, unemployment, war and dictatorship.
Man Sentenced to 4 Years in Prison for Creating a Riot Facebook Page
That is very nice J4, but have you considered having any of your own opinions?
Yes - Honesty!
J4 - can you stop posting this fkn sh!te. I cant laugh any more.
Move out of your mums house or something man. Start shaving.
Fair enough - free world and all that (or is it???) - but surely we all have the right to not be spammed by twats.
It really bugs me how you dont “speak”. If you cant, I think you probably have a personality disorder.
Are you LDF? 