Ok going on from another thread on here I was having some troubles with my bass and kick sitting nicely. Anyways I’ve sorted it now, but basically by transposing my kick up an octave. It now sits at 99khz.
But do you guys think a 99khz kick is going to be beefy enough for a club system? It’s definitly not as beefy as it was before, but i want a low end bass.
I’m aware i need to make a compromise somewhere, simply sidechaining them together before wasn’t cutting it and Future Musics states in it’s latest Bass Issue and i quote: “Sub plus sub doesn’t equal ‘better sub’. Two subs will almost always produce a clash that may sound great on your system but will almost certainly go crazy when you play it anywhere else.”
Ok so yeah, is a 99khz kick ok???
Also I’m aware i need to have my low ends on mono, but i’ve two basses together which create a nice sound and have panned one hard left and the other hard right.
I’ve grouped them together under one buss and compressed and put a mono over it, however it sounds much better without the mono on it.
Is keeping the mono off, a bad idea?
Wondering if sonicly it’s going to cause troubles later on in the club, or whether i can get away with it.
I’ve read on a few sources that it’s ok to pan basses like i’ve done but they almost always get mono’d after a group?
Rules are made to be broken or in this case, it really shouldn’t?
Really need engineer comments on this whole thread, thanks.
it would be very hard to hear 99kHZ.
Do you mean 99Hz?
[quote]howiegroove (09/03/2010)[hr]it would be very hard to hear 99kHZ.
Do you mean 99Hz?[/quote]
My bad mate, i meant hz.
[quote]roben (09/03/2010)[hr]
But do you guys think a 99khz kick is going to be beefy enough for a club system? It’s definitly not as beefy as it was before, but i want a low end bass.[/quote]
You wont really know until you actually play it in a club.
[quote]roben (09/03/2010)[hr]I’m aware i need to make a compromise somewhere, simply sidechaining them together before wasn’t cutting it and Future Musics states in it’s latest Bass Issue and i quote: “Sub plus sub doesn’t equal ‘better sub’. Two subs will almost always produce a clash that may sound great on your system but will almost certainly go crazy when you play it anywhere else.”[/quote]
Dude, you have to get it out of your head about FM/CM. They give good info, but they are very vague on their details. Adding waveforms on top of that will can give you some big phasing issues. Thats why when you hear of people layering, they remove the highs from one sample and the lows in another to get rid of those issues. For instance, they might love the click of one kick, but the lows in another. Do some research on this outside of those dumb magazines brother and you will find out for yourself.
Ok so yeah, is a 99khz kick ok???
[quote]roben (09/03/2010)[hr]Also I’m aware i need to have my low ends on mono, but i’ve two basses together which create a nice sound and have panned one hard left and the other hard right. [/quote]
NONONONONONONO!!!
[quote]roben (09/03/2010)[hr]I’ve grouped them together under one buss and compressed and put a mono over it, however it sounds much better without the mono on it.
Is keeping the mono off, a bad idea?
Wondering if sonicly it’s going to cause troubles later on in the club, or whether i can get away with it.
I’ve read on a few sources that it’s ok to pan basses like i’ve done but they almost always get mono’d after a group?
Rules are made to be broken or in this case, it really shouldn’t?
Really need engineer comments on this whole thread, thanks.
[/quote]
its not the smartest thing to do dude. Can it be done? I’m sure it can, but it is not fundamentally sound, and it will sound like crap 19 times out of 20. On top of that, it should only really be done by a top notch engineer.
See this is the thing mate, everything is so vague and where one source tells you one thing, another source tells you the complete opposite!
I was watching the Imogen Heap thing today and even she said she pans basses.
F*ck dude i don’t know whether i’m coming or going with this bass/kick issue right now.
whats the point in panning two sounds to return it back to a mono, i really struggle to know what that would achieve
[quote]roben (09/03/2010)[hr]See this is the thing mate, everything is so vague and where one source tells you one thing, another source tells you the complete opposite!
I was watching the Imogen Heap thing today and even she said she pans basses.
F*ck dude i don’t know whether i’m coming or going with this bass/kick issue right now.[/quote]
ian carey has said that he sometimes pans his kicks and bass, but hes talking maybe 3 or 4% not hard pan
[quote]jon_fisher (09/03/2010)[hr][quote]roben (09/03/2010)[hr]See this is the thing mate, everything is so vague and where one source tells you one thing, another source tells you the complete opposite!
I was watching the Imogen Heap thing today and even she said she pans basses.
F*ck dude i don’t know whether i’m coming or going with this bass/kick issue right now.[/quote]
ian carey has said that he sometimes pans his kicks and bass, but hes talking maybe 3 or 4% not hard pan[/quote]
No no she was on about hard pans and even multi bases like for instance one 100% left, one 50% left and same other side. To give it more presence, i can see how this can work with a lot of things. Just confusing as to the bass, all i can see this doing is creating mud.
[quote]jon_fisher (09/03/2010)[hr]whats the point in panning two sounds to return it back to a mono, i really struggle to know what that would achieve[/quote]
Logically it makes no sense, but there is a difference in sound when you hear either both channels together centre pan as opposed to them hard panned then grouped and then mono’d.
Weird.
stereo bass isn’t always bad dude, but you need your main punch in the center of the mix.
[quote]roben (09/03/2010)[hr][quote]jon_fisher (09/03/2010)[hr][quote]roben (09/03/2010)[hr]See this is the thing mate, everything is so vague and where one source tells you one thing, another source tells you the complete opposite!
I was watching the Imogen Heap thing today and even she said she pans basses.
F*ck dude i don’t know whether i’m coming or going with this bass/kick issue right now.[/quote]
ian carey has said that he sometimes pans his kicks and bass, but hes talking maybe 3 or 4% not hard pan[/quote]
No no she was on about hard pans and even multi bases like for instance one 100% left, one 50% left and same other side. To give it more presence, i can see how this can work with a lot of things. Just confusing as to the bass, all i can see this doing is creating mud.
[/quote]
dude why would you do this ?
[quote]roben (09/03/2010)[hr][quote]jon_fisher (09/03/2010)[hr]whats the point in panning two sounds to return it back to a mono, i really struggle to know what that would achieve[/quote]
Logically it makes no sense, but there is a difference in sound when you hear either both channels together centre pan as opposed to them hard panned then grouped and then mono’d.
Weird.[/quote]
it will sound different, your sending it through two buss channels! send it through another two and it will sound different again and again and again.
panning a signal is fine! but putting it back to mono is pointless, you’re just simply pulling the signal back to the center of the mix
someone told me that theres a quad mono plug that lets you get multiple stereo outputs from one channel ?
[quote]jon_fisher (09/03/2010)[hr][quote]roben (09/03/2010)[hr][quote]jon_fisher (09/03/2010)[hr][quote]roben (09/03/2010)[hr]See this is the thing mate, everything is so vague and where one source tells you one thing, another source tells you the complete opposite!
I was watching the Imogen Heap thing today and even she said she pans basses.
F*ck dude i don’t know whether i’m coming or going with this bass/kick issue right now.[/quote]
ian carey has said that he sometimes pans his kicks and bass, but hes talking maybe 3 or 4% not hard pan[/quote]
No no she was on about hard pans and even multi bases like for instance one 100% left, one 50% left and same other side. To give it more presence, i can see how this can work with a lot of things. Just confusing as to the bass, all i can see this doing is creating mud.
[/quote]
dude why would you do this ?[/quote]
I haven’t? You tell me?
[quote]jon_fisher (09/03/2010)[hr]stereo bass isn’t always bad dude, but you need your main punch in the center of the mix.
[/quote]
So now you’re saying panning bass is ok?
I’m so confused.
Ok basically this is what i’ve always thought was ‘politicly correct’ when it comes to low end sonics:
Keep your bass and kicks on mono.
I have however heard, read and seen in and from various sources that contradicts that theory.
[quote]roben (09/03/2010)[hr][quote]jon_fisher (09/03/2010)[hr][quote]roben (09/03/2010)[hr][quote]jon_fisher (09/03/2010)[hr][quote]roben (09/03/2010)[hr]See this is the thing mate, everything is so vague and where one source tells you one thing, another source tells you the complete opposite!
I was watching the Imogen Heap thing today and even she said she pans basses.
F*ck dude i don’t know whether i’m coming or going with this bass/kick issue right now.[/quote]
ian carey has said that he sometimes pans his kicks and bass, but hes talking maybe 3 or 4% not hard pan[/quote]
No no she was on about hard pans and even multi bases like for instance one 100% left, one 50% left and same other side. To give it more presence, i can see how this can work with a lot of things. Just confusing as to the bass, all i can see this doing is creating mud.
[/quote]
dude why would you do this ?[/quote]
I haven’t? You tell me?[/quote]
but you understand the reason behind why you would do something like this.
[quote]roben (09/03/2010)[hr][quote]jon_fisher (09/03/2010)[hr]stereo bass isn’t always bad dude, but you need your main punch in the center of the mix.
[/quote]
So now you’re saying panning bass is ok?
I’m so confused.
Ok basically this is what i’ve always thought was ‘politicly correct’ when it comes to low end sonics:
Keep your bass and kicks on mono.
I have however heard, read and seen in and from various sources that contradicts that theory.[/quote]
do you always read something thats not there, this maybe the reason for you struggling with information provided in future music
[quote]jon_fisher (09/03/2010)[hr][quote]roben (09/03/2010)[hr][quote]jon_fisher (09/03/2010)[hr]stereo bass isn’t always bad dude, but you need your main punch in the center of the mix.
[/quote]
So now you’re saying panning bass is ok?
I’m so confused.
Ok basically this is what i’ve always thought was ‘politicly correct’ when it comes to low end sonics:
Keep your bass and kicks on mono.
I have however heard, read and seen in and from various sources that contradicts that theory.[/quote]
do you always read something thats not there, this maybe the reason for you struggling with information provided in future music[/quote]
Struggling with information? Not really, i read it and take it in, maybe that’s why i’m so confused? Like i said, various sources seem to contradict each other all the time.
[quote]roben (09/03/2010)[hr][quote]jon_fisher (09/03/2010)[hr][quote]roben (09/03/2010)[hr][quote]jon_fisher (09/03/2010)[hr]stereo bass isn’t always bad dude, but you need your main punch in the center of the mix.
[/quote]
So now you’re saying panning bass is ok?
I’m so confused.
Ok basically this is what i’ve always thought was ‘politicly correct’ when it comes to low end sonics:
Keep your bass and kicks on mono.
I have however heard, read and seen in and from various sources that contradicts that theory.[/quote]
do you always read something thats not there, this maybe the reason for you struggling with information provided in future music[/quote]
Struggling with information? Not really, i read it and take it in, maybe that’s why i’m so confused? Like i said, various sources seem to contradict each other all the time.
[/quote]
well i never mention panning dude, i said stereo two different things
This is something I’ve really struggled with, and still do. I’ve experimented with different combinations of low kick mid bass, or mid kick with low bass, but in my highly novice and amateur opinion am coming to the conclusion that it all depends on the combination of sounds within a particular track. Each one is different - just when i think I’ve cracked it and found a magic formula, the same approach sounds crap in another mix.
I suppose I’m saying the old maxim of use your ears. Technique takes you so far and is definitely helpful, but if it don’t work, change it. 