Hey Phil i was reading your other post where you said that in the tutorials you show how you work and how you have done for years and a mehod that has been proven succesful. So i had a question for how you mix down. My problem is that i get asked for say a -3 or -6db mixdown so the label can send it off for mastering. The problem is in Ableton i find it extremely difficult to keep a full mix under 0db never mind -6. The only way i can seem to do it is to make everything as loud as possible then pull the Master fader down. Now i notice Phil you also move the master fader around, so my question is, is this the way how its done? I really cant see how you can get a nice bangin mix with no processing on the master and keep it between -3 to -6 Db. I mean theoretically it is possible but you have to make everything so quite and weak and hope theres no unexpected peak from a drum roll or explosion or something that sends the master above 0. So if you could answer this id be very happy, at the moment i just stick a limiter on the master and dont really worry about the levels but squeezing down a mix with a limiter to -3db greatly affects the sound.
The mixer is 32 bit floating point so all the levels are relative… your only concern is that there arent any external sources that are creating noise that will increase the overall noise floor.
theoretically you could mix at -30 db then normalize to -3db after and all the information should still be intact… in practice you might introduce slight artefact due to some plugins not following a full 32 bi signal path.
In general it really wont make much difference between -3 -6 -20 as its all Digital with virtually infinite head room.
If you keep it out of the red thats all you really need to worry about.
Yeah but this is what is extremely difficult! Remeber even a 0,1 over 0db will turn the signal red in Ableton. Floating point or not! Also any mastering engineer will insist on NO Normalizing, so that is thrown out of the window. Just in theory Phil you send me a demo i love it and i want a -6db mixdown from you because i have the best mastering engineer in the world who requests this. What is the process you do? We have seen your tutorials, you love to go into the red and my superhero mastering engineer says like 99% of all mastering engineers that he doesnt want any form of normalization or processing on the master. So isnt your only option to follow the guidelines set by your label to deliver a really really quite weak mix which peaks at -6 where you dont touch the master fader or just mix everything how you would not worrying about the ableton levels going into the red but just making sure there is no audible clipping and then at the end of the ride just pulling the master fader DOWN so it tells you in ableton your highest peaks on the master is around -6Db??? Im super confused whats your process if this happenned in theory???
Going into the red on channels is ok theres plenty of headroom there (except if you are feeding something else with that signal - like another plugin or a plugin on a group) … on the master its totally different as you say anything over 0db will clip on your render.
so yeah just bring down the master to the desired level.
This is a really interesting topic, thanks for your replies Phil, i’ve often wondered this myself.
So is the general consensus that it will be fine, as long as your master isn’t peaking into the red at any point of the track?
yeah… basically… use your ears tho if it sounds distorted you’ve obviously got a problem somewhere.
Yeah because even though on your individual channels it doesnt matter any channel going into the red WILL send your Master into the red. The only way to do it is to bring the master fader down! I always thought the master reflects my mix so even if all my channels are in the red if i bring the master fader down so its not clipping it should theoretically be ok as long as theres no audible clipping ofc. Thanx for this Phil but this brings the next question, say your master is going into the red and you stick a mastering plugin on like a limiter and dont touch the master fader this should be fine right? Due to the limiter even though the mix before the limiter is crossing the 0db level on the Master the Limiter squashes it down and the actuall output is still 0db technically. Butnthe question was for delevering mixdowns with no processing done on the master.
Jan I thought things like compressors and limiters in your master were supposed to be turned off before sending out to mastering?
Yeah what im saying is that the only way to do it without anything on the master is to turn the fader down.
I always have a utility as the first effect on my master channel it means you can control the signal going into your master chain… if it is running hot into a master chain it could create unwanted clipping depending on the plugin.