[quote]jjdejong0 (01/05/2011)[hr] Also i dont think anyone really wants this type of lifestyle unless your a no good jobless lazy bum…[/quote]
having been off work the last 10 days for easter i would quite like to not have to go back! would be lovely to sit around and do stuff with ableton all day
Jan i had heard the squatter movement in netherlands has receded in recent years - is that the case?
[quote]jjdejong0 (01/05/2011)[hr]Also no offense but these hippy people fighting the system living in squats and squallor thinking their great for not paying taxes and not paying rent or gas/electric etc… well why bwould anyone want to live like that? Sitting around doing drugs, not worked a day in their lives and constantly ‘fighting’ something. My experience is they do more talking about fighting something than actuall fighting. Also i dont think anyone really wants this type of lifestyle unless your a no good jobless lazy bum…[/quote]
It’s not like you to generalize Jan 
I used to squat in central London in Shafetsbury Avenue - paid all my taxes and bills and worked in a job I hated
Squatting is a necessarity since affordable housing demand is never met (if it was banned it would cost any western government so much more to house people or ghettos would spring up in all our cities)
I still know people who squat and have an alternative lifestyle and continually meet people like you who can not understand them - so what if they choose the way they live - the idea that they do not pay utility bills is a myth as they would be cut off and often given a pre pay meter - which incedently cost them more that by direct debit - as for not working most of the people i know do some normal paid work or alternative volunteer work be it working on soup kitchens, prositute charities and a wealth of other noble work - if these people did not do volunteering a lot of vulnerable people would be left on the side - they still have to pay council tax bu law and would face prison - ok they do not pay rent to a council who can not be bothered to make a property fit for anyone else to live in which is a duty of the council to do - so intially they are the ones who are breaking the law
Sure you hear about Albanians squatting a Hamstead mansion but this is not the norm and so what if they do - in British law everyone has a right to a home - considering we are the 4th richest country in the world thats right is doable instead we reward our bankers for crippling the western economy, invade countries on a whim of US revenge and have banile spectacles of patriotism to fool us in thinking everything is ok
Ha - not even started on what I am going say on the topic
[quote]chekka (01/05/2011)[hr][quote]
flouride mate[/quote]
Yeah… Totally.
_____________________________________________________________
DISCLAIMER _ DO NOT WANT TO DISCUSS THIS INDEPTH:
Another thing - The whole United Ireland thing. I reckon that the reason why most people down the south arent interested in it, is because they have got better lives now than back in the day. We’ve houses, cars, holidays, flat screen TV’s.
No-one gives a sh!t about Politics… well maybe now they do. Only its more economics that they are interested in.
Its just easier for people to ignore & carry on… cos theres other options out there now. Too busy buying sh!t in the gadget shop & surfing the net to pay attention to anything other than niche.
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Holland. When my mate was over there he saw a squat being raided by armed police. Really tooled up… like Army. They’d armoured cars & everything. He said the people inside were utterly destroyed by them.
Chekka is pretty much spot-on back on the first page with his first post. The only thing I will add is that you folks over there are WAY more involved in your governments and policies than the lazy, fat-a$$es over here in the United States. I mean, please… The entire country of France strikes when someone mistakenly flushes the toilet twice in one sitting…
I think the 60s really changed how people look at revolt, especially here. It was very likely outrageous to have kids on college campuses killed by National Guard because the draft and Vietnam were just one of the most visible embarrassments ever for our country! Of course, the Yippies were making the Hippies look bad, but to the powers that be, they all looked the same, so shoot first and ask questions later was the motto…
This is why we call it the “Soft 70s.” People wrote apolitical music out of fear of being shot. Kind of like Stalinist Russia where composers were dragged into the street and shot because the authorities thought musicians were sending “codes” in their strange-sounding works. People like Joni Mitchell and Billy Joel made “personal problems” outside of government or religion the subject of song. Over here, things cooled off.
They never really did in England, though. The Pistols and the Clash, for example, never feared whatever would happen to them should the government find them a bit too irritating to let live. I mean, let’s face it. The Sex Pistols tried everything they could to push the thorn in everyone’s side even deeper! Just look at the Bill Grundy incident, or their trouble with EMI because they were so raucous.
Our version of punk was The Ramones, who just wanted to sing about how cool it is to sniff glue in the basement without being caught by Mom or Dad. Now, it is almost like youth today sense the hopelessness of one person making a difference, and instead concentrate on “me.” This is SO OBVIOUS with things like YouTube and SoundCloud and Facebook where everything is about “Look at Me! I’m the best person ever because I’m wiping my rear-end at the moment on video!!!”
Twitter? Facebook? Myspace? World of Warcraft?
People these days are distracted by the most ridiculous things that make ABSOLUTELY no difference in their lives. And to be honest, I think the mega-companies of the world, like Apple, and Walmart, and Exxon, in addition to the corrupt governmental systems of the globe, wouldn’t have it any other way!~
I think they LOVE the idea that people are more concerned with taking care of their Farm on Facebook than who their leaders are and what they are doing…Keep people distracted, and it’s easier to move about, stealing every last dollar from your pocket while you’re fixated on the screen.
Honestly, ICN. I think THAT is what has happened. We have too many “things” distracting us with a false sense of happiness.
J
[quote]JamieinNC (01/05/2011)[hr]We have too many “things” distracting us with a false sense of happiness.[/quote]
Thats my whole argument in one sentence 
Jamie don’t forget The Dead Kennedys - the only US punk band I can think off atm who were trying to be anti-establishment
[quote]ICN (01/05/2011)[hr][quote]JamieinNC (01/05/2011)[hr]We have too many “things” distracting us with a false sense of happiness.[/quote]
Thats my whole argument in one sentence [/quote]
Thank you, ICN. I’ve been saying it for about 5 years now. Unfortunately, few are listening…
[quote]slender (01/05/2011)[hr]Jamie don’t forget The Dead Kennedys - the only US punk band I can think off atm who were trying to be anti-establishment[/quote]
Ah very true, the Replacements, too. I guess Nirvana COULD be considered anti-establishment as well… No, they were more like anti-system. They include social things as well.
[quote]JamieinNC (01/05/2011)[hr]
[quote]slender (01/05/2011)[hr]Jamie don’t forget The Dead Kennedys - the only US punk band I can think off atm who were trying to be anti-establishment[/quote]
Ah very true, the Replacements, too. I guess Nirvana COULD be considered anti-establishment as well… No, they were more like anti-system. They include social things as well.[/quote]
…and if we could go back in time a little - I would say that Velvet Underground have always been an inspiration to my music then and now
Oh, absolutely! To me, David Bowie and Lou Reed (perhaps the worst rock singer ever, next to Iggy Pop) are the pioneers there. I mean, “Hang Onto Yourself” of Bowie is flat-out punk, about 5 years early.
[quote]slender (01/05/2011)[hr][quote]JamieinNC (01/05/2011)[hr]
[quote]slender (01/05/2011)[hr]Jamie don’t forget The Dead Kennedys - the only US punk band I can think off atm who were trying to be anti-establishment[/quote]
Ah very true, the Replacements, too. I guess Nirvana COULD be considered anti-establishment as well… No, they were more like anti-system. They include social things as well.[/quote]
…and if we could go back in time a little - I would say that Velvet Underground have always been an inspiration to my music then and now[/quote]
Agreed
[quote]JamieinNC (01/05/2011)[hr]Oh, absolutely! To me, David Bowie and Lou Reed (perhaps the worst rock singer ever, next to Iggy Pop) are the pioneers there. I mean, “Hang Onto Yourself” of Bowie is flat-out punk, about 5 years early.
[quote]slender (01/05/2011)[hr][quote]JamieinNC (01/05/2011)[hr]
[quote]slender (01/05/2011)[hr]Jamie don’t forget The Dead Kennedys - the only US punk band I can think off atm who were trying to be anti-establishment[/quote]
Ah very true, the Replacements, too. I guess Nirvana COULD be considered anti-establishment as well… No, they were more like anti-system. They include social things as well.[/quote]
…and if we could go back in time a little - I would say that Velvet Underground have always been an inspiration to my music then and now[/quote][/quote]
Ok here I go
I do agree with what most people have said - we live in a society very different from the one I knew when I was in my late teens both politically and culturally
My first real exposure to a song that had a cause apart from the Sex Pistols which I have never truly been convinced with their sincerity as it was really just a project of Mclaren and his warped idea of what Situatanism is (but thats a whole differnt story) - was Hiroshima mon Amour by Ultravox - though I was aware of the velvets and protest folk music from the 60’s. At the same time I was listening to Industrial Electronic music - I remember seeing Throbbing Gristle’s 2o Jazz Funk Hits cover - wow did i laugh at that and the 2nd Annual Report which was pressed backwards - now thats attitude. Infact that whole electronic noise scene was far more appealing
Have been well read at an early age and more leaning too Russian writers I was pretty politicised from the start though never a communist as my Grandfather had told me some horror stories of what they did to the anarchists in Spain (he fought over there against Franco) so the punk Crass scene was always appealing to me - not necessarily their pacifist meat is murder ideology which I never would agree with but the idea that people can independently stand up for themselves etc etc - the anarchist centre in Wapping I frequented many times and was involved in squatted cafes and music venues all over London – this was what the political punk thing was t me
My first exposure to the squatted music scene was in 1980 with what I knew as the Warehouse parties which played Northern Soul, disco and stuff from NY – great friendly places where a soul boy would be chatting up a punk girl (have to remember in those days the youth were part of a group – be it punks, rockers mods etc etc ) and our only worries was if the old bill would raid and nick our spliff – like today they were mostly free to get in and beer was normal priced or you just brought your own. Ofcourse 10 years later when drugs got involved the scene changed for a while for the better until gangs took over and with guns being drawn I personally had enough of all that
Britain in those days was pretty much fractured from a mismanaged country in 70’s by union frightened left government to Thatcher. There was no sitting on the fence, one was with her or against – once she smashed the miners she could not be held back until the introduction of the Poll Tax. This of course helped breed many left wing or protest groups which leapt in to the charts some sincere many not (I should not forget the emergence of OI racist skinhead groups as well) So young people were exposed to music that was trying to say something
But due to MTV and the demise of the credible music press this all seemed to disappear rapidly – in my day I could go to a gig everyday of the week and see different types of music – now is a completely different story in the UK.
Now after we had Blair who damaged the left far more than Thatcher and we have generations of people under educated, TV with 400 channels of mind numbing trash, Internet porn (just making sure your staying with me) and a popular music scene which is as radical as having toast in the mornings it seems all is lost -
But to say dance music can not be protest music is simple wrong - for example One Nation under a Groove, Facist Groove Thang and most of the early Specials tunes are all dance tunes with a message. Even Wham’s first hit was seen to be a protest song to some.
On a personal note I do put something of protest in all my work – maybe it’s a voice sample, the name of the tune – or simply the different approach to sound as I said in the sound thread music to me is about pushing things forward not staying stagnant like so many edm producers today - but then I have no real ambition to be famous just would like to be known for what my music and in someway what I stand for
Sorry if this is a bit jumbled and disjointed but I probably could write a book on the subject
Long live the Techno Militia brothers and sisters
[quote]slender (01/05/2011)[hr]Ok here I go
I do agree with what most people have said - we live in a society very different from the one I knew when I was in my late teens both politically and culturally
My first real exposure to a song that had a cause apart from the Sex Pistols which I have never truly been convinced with their sincerity as it was really just a project of Mclaren and his warped idea of what Situatanism is (but thats a whole differnt story) - was Hiroshima mon Amour by Ultravox - though I was aware of the velvets and protest folk music from the 60’s. At the same time I was listening to Industrial Electronic music - I remember seeing Throbbing Gristle’s 2o Jazz Funk Hits cover - wow did i laugh at that and the 2nd Annual Report which was pressed backwards - now thats attitude. Infact that whole electronic noise scene was far more appealing
Have been well read at an early age and more leaning too Russian writers I was pretty politicised from the start though never a communist as my Grandfather had told me some horror stories of what they did to the anarchists in Spain (he fought over there against Franco) so the punk Crass scene was always appealing to me - not necessarily their pacifist meat is murder ideology which I never would agree with but the idea that people can independently stand up for themselves etc etc - the anarchist centre in Wapping I frequented many times and was involved in squatted cafes and music venues all over London – this was what the political punk thing was t me
My first exposure to the squatted music scene was in 1980 with what I knew as the Warehouse parties which played Northern Soul, disco and stuff from NY – great friendly places where a soul boy would be chatting up a punk girl (have to remember in those days the youth were part of a group – be it punks, rockers mods etc etc ) and our only worries was if the old bill would raid and nick our spliff – like today they were mostly free to get in and beer was normal priced or you just brought your own. Ofcourse 10 years later when drugs got involved the scene changed for a while for the better until gangs took over and with guns being drawn I personally had enough of all that
Britain in those days was pretty much fractured from a mismanaged country in 70’s by union frightened left government to Thatcher. There was no sitting on the fence, one was with her or against – once she smashed the miners she could not be held back until the introduction of the Poll Tax. This of course helped breed many left wing or protest groups which leapt in to the charts some sincere many not (I should not forget the emergence of OI racist skinhead groups as well) So young people were exposed to music that was trying to say something
But due to MTV and the demise of the credible music press this all seemed to disappear rapidly – in my day I could go to a gig everyday of the week and see different types of music – now is a completely different story in the UK.
Now after we had Blair who damaged the left far more than Thatcher and we have generations of people under educated, TV with 400 channels of mind numbing trash, Internet porn (just making sure your staying with me) and a popular music scene which is as radical as having toast in the mornings it seems all is lost -
But to say dance music can not be protest music is simple wrong - for example One Nation under a Groove, Facist Groove Thang and most of the early Specials tunes are all dance tunes with a message. Even Wham’s first hit was seen to be a protest song to some.
On a personal note I do put something of protest in all my work – maybe it’s a voice sample, the name of the tune – or simply the different approach to sound as I said in the sound thread music to me is about pushing things forward not staying stagnant like so many edm producers today - but then I have no real ambition to be famous just would like to be known for what my music and in someway what I stand for
Sorry if this is a bit jumbled and disjointed but I probably could write a book on the subject
Long live the Techno Militia brothers and sisters
[/quote]
I’m waiting for the executive summary
Yeah… MTV has a lot to do with it alright. I’d say now more than ever… like, when was the last time they showed a music vid? What sh!t do they have on it now… all fkn cribs with fools showing off their Scarface DVD’s?
Something went very wrong somewhere & undoubtably is due to an amalgamation of all those factors.
I do think that the light is dying & will ultimately die. Bring back National Service! :hehe: Nah… but you must have seen so many changes Slender… Its interesting Mate. Its even interesting what we are doing here - The Net. Thats part of the problem too.
I’ve seen forums for people who are interested in FLASHLIGHTS. They have the names of all the “Modded” flashlights that they own in their sigs. How can you get people out of their comfort zone? Too much choice. No-one gives a fk about anything.
@ICN
Well you may say the light is dying - but from the Paris ghetto (sorry can not remember the place names of where the recent riots were) there is some interesting music and culture coming out of the area - I can not name names simply as its not my sort of thing - but certainly seen some good indy french films highlighting conditions and stuff
Also look whats happening in your own country, Portugal and to some extents here there is a mood for change it’s just a matter if people can unite and get off their arse - the middle east troubles are a perfect example - but then I am ever the optomist
Just out of interest did you like my flashlight 
The light is not dying on the Flashlight Forums.
Maybe we should go there
[quote]ICN (01/05/2011)[hr]The light is not dying on the Flashlight Forums.
Maybe we should go there :P[/quote]
I just wonder why you were there mate 
“Waiter, can you give me what ICN’s been having please?”
[quote]ICN (01/05/2011)[hr][quote]slender (01/05/2011)[hr][quote]ICN (01/05/2011)[hr]The light is not dying on the Flashlight Forums.
Maybe we should go there :P[/quote]
I just wonder why you were there mate ;)[/quote]
It was legitimate. Was searching for a halogen spotlight green alternative in google.
Was dumbfounded.
Theres a guy on here called LED Zepplin - LOL
http://flashlight-forums.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=fbd2825f547a6bb7f8494b84f6739516&board=1.0
[url]http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?4-General-Flashlight-Discussion[/url][/quote]
Your a geek mate admit it
My name is John & I’m a geek 
Ok but lets get one thing straight. I hate the governments, I hate royal families and I definately hate bankers. However id rather look out for no1, in the western civilised world mass protests and demonstrations are just a waste of the participants energy and time. Look at the student protests as a prime example. I just think theres no point, we CANT win. Even if we are led to believe in a victory we will be bitch slapped in some other sly way. Do you really think people with average to small incomes can stand up to organizations and governments with billions at their disposel. So my argument is instead of wasting your time on a battle you cant win, doesnt it make more sense to make money yourself and take care of you and yours. The fact is money = power. I also believe one multi millionaire could potentially make more of an impact than 20,000 students scraping pennies together for beans on toast…
Wether you think its fair, or acceptable is a whole other argument but its sadly the harsh truth.