Not that it really matters providing the tune sounds good, but how many midi and audio parts do you tend to have in your music?br
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I average 30-40, although some of the ultrabeats will have 4 or 5 sounds in, so I guess you could say 50 max.br
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but I was working with a guy the other day who has tunes out on Vandit Perfecto amongst others and he had close to 100 parts in his tunes, which seems crazy.
I think alot of this depends on how you work, and also what kind of music you are making.br
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For example, if you are doing a vocal track, you might have 5-6 layers of audio on different tracks, to create pseudo-chorusing etc, all with different effects and processing. Then on top of this, you might have loads of tracks containing little snippets of the vocal for little stabs and edits etc, which can pretty quickly get you over 15-20 tracks just on the vocal related parts.br
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My advice to anyone who is not already really, really good at producing, would be to try and get a great sound using the least number of tracks you can. The reason i say this, is the fewer tracks you have, the easier it is to mix the track really well and keep everything nice and clean and punchy. This can only be good whilst you are still learning as a producer.br
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I have seen plenty of producers put together professional and full sounding tracks with no more than about 15 different tracks used in total, so it can be done.
Agree with what you’re saying about making it sound good with minimal tracks, I often think I’ve got something good going until I do a direct comparison br
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The trouble is, the more banging style of trance that I’ve been trying to make recently, championed by o’callaghan, askew, sean tyas etc… seems to have become increasingly full and noisy, so to get a track sounding any where close to these guys requires so many layers. My logic just won’t cope with that amount of stuff going on, struggles as it is.br
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Oh there was only a small vocal sample in this track, it was mainly made up of 30 or so effects, 30 lines of percussion/loops, 6 main leads, 4 other leads, 4 stabs effects, 5 pads, 7 basslines (Sub to high) 6 acid sounds and some other bits and bobs.
Indeed i used to make trance, and there is alot more emphasis on layering compared with most other genres.br
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You know i do think the interesting thing with trance though, that is related to this topic, is that alot of it sounds pretty much the same. Therefore, there is always going to be a greater emphasis upon making everything sound bigger and ‘louder’, in order to try and stand out above the crowd.br
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I think this is where this crazy amount of layering came from! Whereas if you take other genres, the emphasis is more upon creating unique and unusual sounds, so if you get for example a really good lead or bass that’s unusual because of the way you have processed it or the effects you have added, then you don’t need perhaps as much layering to create a track that grabs peoples attention.br
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Also like you said, trance these days can be very ‘noisy’ and heavily compressed and limited, which also means that more can be packed in.br
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Also like i mentioned, if you are producing modern sounding trance with all those layers, you need to be damn good at mixing! Especially once you start adding those massive reverbs that are a stable of this kind of sound!br
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My approach these days is very much to try and produce tracks with only 15-20 tracks maximum. I try and make every sound in the track really great and quite full in it’s own right, so you don’t need too many sounds playing together to get a nice full track. br
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I prefer this kind of sound now to that trance sound where the tracks are really noisy and loud!br
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But it’s all personal preference i guess!
You speak a lot of sense David, I’d much prefer to be able to make old Van Dyk style stuff where the minimal melody and bassline are enough the get the place going, but I guess that takes much more skill than just going for all out noise.br
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Remember as well that usually, the people producing these kind of trance tracks that have masses and masses of layers, are usually very good engineers, or they have access to a very good engineer and mastering team who can make them sound so great, even with this much packed into the track.br
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For example, Sean Tyas was an engineer for many years. Jorn Van Deynhoven, who many people think produces the biggest baddest trance tracks around at the moment, has been an engineer for many years.br
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These people are very very good at mixing. Then factor in that they no doubt get their tracks professionally mastered. Also they have access to all the best gear, plugins etc!br
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Not everyone can create such a big sound without years of practice and access to the best gear.br
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The alternative to get noticed would be to produce tracks that have something really unique and different about them. Even if they don’t sound as big, loud or ‘great’, then they still might get you noticed because of their creativity.
It’s interesting if you go back and listen to trance from the late 90’s - like the Van Dyk stuff you mentioned.br
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These tracks now sound so empty, quiet, weak and feeble in comparison to the kind of trance sound we have grown used to in recent years.br
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Don’t get me wrong, these are still great, great tracks. But it’s interesting how some of the quality of those earlier trance tracks was not all that amazing!br
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It was interesting to hear Chris Agnelli mention on here a while ago that one of the classic Agnelli and Nelson tracks they made sounded **** in a club! And we are talking about one of the greatest trance tracks ever produced here!br
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I guess it’s easy to forget now just how much the overall standard of production in dance music has gone up over the past 15 years or so!br
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But like i said, the flip-side is that arguably, overall creativity and uniqueness has decreased, as a whole.br
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So there is definately something to be said for producing tracks that are packed with creativity, but maybe don’t sound as large and full as say for example, the trance producers you have mentioned.br
Yeah that can be said for all dance music, the fullness and clarity of sound, the power from the basslines has all come on loads in the last 10 years.br
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The difference is the old classics all have an identity, whereas much of the stuff being churned out now is just trance by numbers.
Not sure about "overall creativity and uniqueness has decreased"br
There’s just a ****load of music produced last couple of years, but still the ones that rise above it all, are quite original or unique sounding ones. Not just louder or harder or more layered.br
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FCL - It’s Youbr
Leon Vynehall - Brother/ Sisterbr
Guti - Hopebr
De Sluwe Vos - OG Anthembr
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Just to name some examples that stood out for me :Dbr
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Besides that, on average I use between 30-40 tracks. br
Some 10-15 for drums, percussion hats. 2-5 for bass. Keys often take up 5-10. And then there’s the vocals, fills, etc.