BUG: Ableton 10.1.7 ALC clip + ANA 2 = mod matrix corruption

I completely losing the preset settings after saving an Ableton 10.1.7 ALC clip.

Steps to reproduce(see detailed image below):

  1. I created a midi clip and added ANA 2 to midi track. I made some tweaks on “Cycles II” preset.
  2. I have such a modulation matrix
  3. I drag’n’dropped midi clip into my “Scraps” folder on a sidebar Places, to create Ableton’s ALC file.
  4. Next I drag’n’drop that ALC to empty space to create new midi track and ANA 2 instance.
  5. Now I have two ANA 2 instances
  6. But the second ANA’s mod matrix is completely corrupted (and a patch sound also):

Please help to address that issue. It’s pretty annoying :frowning:

Ableton version:
MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Mid 2015)
MacOS version: Catalina 10.15.2

Detailed image (right click it and select “Open in new tab”):

Hey there @BazZy

Though I’m not running 10.15 MacOS Catalina but still 10.13 High Sierra on my end, I did try to replicate this and found out the following :

  • When using your method with drag & drop the 1st ANA 2 Instance Midi file onto a sidebar Folder inside Live and then drag & drop the new created .ALC file onto an empty space in session view, I have the same result as you mentioned for the Modulation getting altered but the patch was the same ( I tweaked the main filter Cutoff after launching the “Cycle II” patch and that remains ).

  • Now if I take the exact same first steps but instead of drag & drop the Midi file onto the sidebar folder, I directly drag & drop it onto an empty space in session view, the new instance of ANA 2 kept the same Modulation settings as well as the Patch ones. While in arrangement view, select your Midi Clip on ANA 2 track, hold your Left Mouse Button to keep it “grabbed” and start to move it a bit, then without releasing your Left Mouse Button, hit TAB on your Keyboard to go to session view and drop the Midi Clip onto an empty space. Check the new created instance of ANA 2 Modulation & patch settings, they should be the same as your fist ANA 2 Instance.

Let me know how this is working or not for you under Catalina, I’m also on latest Live 10.1.7 BTW.

Looks more to me than an issue with Live than something to do with a bug inside ANA 2, and beside this, that kind of workflow and shortcuts way of working within DAW can lead to unpredictable results sometime. Saving your presets or duplicating them is the safest way to avoid this.

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@Tekalight I’ve taken the steps with dragging the clip into session view and haven’t got any mod matrix altering. So under Catalina it works exactly like under the High Sierra.

But dragging the clip into the session view and not getting any alteration is not a surprise for me, cause I’m still staying in the same project. Conversely, if I drag a midi clip to make an ALC clip, it’s the same as quickly saving a new minimalistic project version.

Before that, I got a similar bug several times when I honestly saved a project with ANA 2 instance, and after opening it, I found out that the sound was completely different from what I had made and saved.


Sorry for late reply, was on leave last week :wink:

Not sure about the mechanism behind the .ALC file creation when dropping a Midi Clip onto Live’s browser, I won’t see that as saving a minimal project version though, it’s more a channel strip with Midi Notes & device + effects chain save.

My guess is that since Midi Preset Change is not implemented in ANA 2, the .ALC file created that way by Live
will mess up your preset settings, not sure maybe @phil_johnston could tell more about this.

Again, though I know it’s more convenient for faster workflow to just save a Live Project without the need to save VST presets first, it’s not a 100% safe method IMO. Once you’re done with your sound design it’s worth taking the habit to use ANA 2 “Save as” feature from the GUI & save it into your user presets. It’s the safest way to recall a preset in case of troubles.

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