Clipping in ableton

Why when I import songs for making a mix, louder tracks clip the master channel. All dance songs are generally normalized and the channel is set to 0db. I’m also not crossfading however it clips so I have to bring down the individual channel gain…doesn’t make sense?



Mo

Turn down your tracks dood…

You can always put a limiter on the master bus too.

[quote]howiegroove (10/2/2009)[hr]You can always put a limiter on the master bus too.[/quote]



if you are already clipping it will damage the sound even more by using a limiter

do you normalize the tracks you’re self ?

[quote]jon_fisher (10/2/2009)[hr][quote]howiegroove (10/2/2009)[hr]You can always put a limiter on the master bus too.[/quote]



if you are already clipping it will damage the sound even more by using a limiter[/quote]



I don’t think so. All a limiter is is just very hard compression. It doesn’t cut the sound out or clip. Therefore, it doesn’t do any damage.

Howie,

You are probably right but in the wrong hands a limiter on a master bus could damage the sound by further reducing the overall dynamics.

I think your first suggestion about lowering the channel volume would be the best bet as it doesn’t really change the original as such.






Turn down my song. Thats a concept I didn’t think of…:wink:

Seriously, please tell me why I would need to turn down a song when it’s mastered to 0db. 0 means 0 so why would it spike the master channel? In general I try to use as little comp as possible and it seems silly to have to use this function on something that already has it from the mastering stage.

mostey,

just a couple of questions.

are the tracks mastered by yourself or are they just lifted from various sources?

and have you loaded the offending tracks into an audio editor to see if there are any spikes above 0db.?

im not going to say that i know this one at all so its just a guess but layering one track over another even if they are at 0db has got to amplify the total out put.



please correct me if my thinking is wrong.





and limiting a track that is already peaking over 0db will jsut smash the track down, increase the distortion and wreck the dynamics is my thinking.





like i say its a guess and im not a expert at this lol

[quote]jon_fisher (10/2/2009)[hr]im not going to say that i know this one at all so its just a guess but layering one track over another even if they are at 0db has got to amplify the total out put.

please correct me if my thinking is wrong.


yeah jon , seems like a summing issue heres a good read on how dbs work also good for understanding percieved loudness!:slight_smile:

http://www.homeandprojectstudio.com/features/feature001.html

egg2,

a very useful article about bus summing!

cheers

Glad it helped dude … hope more people read it !:slight_smile:

Yes these were just standard tracks I bought on Beatport. I didn’t bring them into an editing program but I did warp them and used re-pitch.

When tracks are crossfaded it is normal for the sum to clip, so I punched in a limiter during this short time.

These tracks are at 0db and the individual channels are at a 0 level. Yet the master still clips. I had to bring own the individual channel volume as much as 3db just for it to go back into yellow.

Interesting…

Mo

2 tracks on top of each other are going to boost you overall volume correct.

just because they are both 0db doesn’t mean when you mix them your overall volume will be 0db. it will get louder!



either turn down your individual channel strips or turn down your master gain.



do not use a limiter, this will squash your sound.



you’ll notice how bad limiters can be if you listen to a bad sound system in a club that has been limited.

when the sound peaks above your set limit it pulls it back to 0db or your desired output. - which if your track is already above 0db, will sound terrible


thanks for clearing that up bry, what you said is what i was basically thinking but wasn’t 100% sure.

When making music, I mess with the volumes of the original track. When I have a completed track, I start with every volume all the way down and bring up each individual track up separately and see the effect they have on the master. I start with the most important first and work my way through all my sounds.

I forgot to add, everyone should remember the effect that FX and macros play on loudness. Adding effects to a track and making a mess of sound on purpose can play with volumes. Take this into consideration as well.

Ok lets forget about the crossfade feature for a moment… I’m just simply talking about playing a track back. If I take a finished track which is mastered to 0db and play it back through the channel, it peaks the master. I’ve set the line level to exactly 0 and it has a re-pitch warp on it, but thats it. Would warping make the level go above 0db? I think that is the question at this point because I see no other reason as I haven’t applied any efx, etc…

Thanks for the help and support. SA community rocks.

Mostey

Mostey it might be worth heading over to the Ableton forums.

Seems like the general consensus is that re-pitch/warping can in certain circumstances add artifacts.

There’s so much conflicting information though.

Some users (reasons already stated in this thread) have opted against limiting and seem to prefer to use a saturator which makes sense to a point.