Feature Request - More Mod Sources

[reidmich182]

I think it would be great if there were some new mod sources added like - fixed, random and alternate. Im pretty sure these arent available in the current version of ANA 2.

Thanks

[Tekalight]

Hey there @reidmich182

Not sure what you mean by “Modulation Sources” and then referring to “fixed, random & alternate” , it looks more than a type & behavior of the modulation than what is referred as “Modulation Sources” inside ANA 2 which can be almost anything like LFO’s, G-Envelopes, Arp modulators…

So it looks more to me like a request to have more control on the modulation behavior ?? → Does that sounds right to you @phil_johnston ?

[reidmich182]

Thanks for getting back to me,

I took some snapshots of Serum and TAL-Mod that display the features I’m talking about. I no longer have DUNE 3 but it also had Random, Constant/Fixed, and Alternate Mod sources. I’m not great at explaining things so I’m sorry for that. Hopefully this clarifies what I mean.

I find these features really useful in my workflow and think it would be a great addition to ANA 2.

Thanks

[Tekalight]

Thanks for the details.

[middle_color]

Let me clarify those mod sources. Easiest way to explain them is to use Pan and Cutoff examples:

1. Alternate - assign to Pan. Now each key press will pan voice - left, right, left, right with offset defined by modulation amount. This is useful to emulate classical “pan spread” feature on prophet synthesizers. On screenshot there are 2 Alternate source: NoteOn Alt, NoteOn Alt.2. Which gives 2 different values on key press.

2. Random - assign to Cutoff Frequency. On each key press cutoff will be modulated by pseudo random value between current point ad modulation amount. Effect is similar to assigning Sample and Hold LFO. But with S&H one holds single note and Cutoff walks. With Random modulation one quickly plays notes and and each note has different Cutoff value. On screenshot there are NoteOn Rand1 and NoteOn Rand2.

3. Fixed (aka Constant, aka DC) - rather less useful. Sometimes it may modify parameter that is not present on UI (sorry, i forgot particular example but i faced this in some VST). Or for example on Prophet 12 synthesizer Fixed (this mod source called DC on prophet) can push HiPass filter into self oscillation, while knob on panel cannot!

Or can be used creative:
modulate Fixed - Volume All - 100 - Inverted
modulate G-env 1 - Volume All - 100 - Direct
Now draw in G-env 1 plucky trancegate pattern.
This way one should not keep balancing volume of oscillators between zero and a little: modulation shifts it relatively.

Potential application of all techniques: pan spread and psychedelic sounds.

[sikdrumz]

Hi there, adding to this thread as I have come to the forums looking for info on the ‘random’ type modulations mentioned above.

If the user is looking for a random change in eg. Cutoff per note press, the S&H LFO shape doesn’t quite do the job. Setting it to re-trigger means you only get the values at the start of the LFO shape, and setting it free-running means that it might skip between values while the note is on.

Ideally there would be an underlying true S&H/randomise function that can hold for the duration of each note, but then change for the next note. This is quite a common use case in eg PsyTrance for controlling a band pass filter. As noted above, it is implemented in Serum amongst others, with both true random and ‘next step distance’ types.

Is there a workaround for this? If not, is it a hard thing to add?

Thanks!

[middle_color]

Later reflections on my own post.
Probably instead of a Random modulator (which is always welcome!) we could have extended functionality on S&H?

What if add a Rate position that is smaller than 0? Let that position name “Hold” or “Gate”.
Then when S&H LFO is in this position it will work exactly as Random → generate and hold a single value until note gate is off.

[sikdrumz]

Since we have recently had an ANA 2 update (2.0.991) and there is a Beta also available, I was hoping to return to this question.

Is there any chance of having a S&H value per note played, either as a new mod source (similar to Serum’s 'Note on random 1&2) or in the form of retriggering the existing S&H LFO such that it does genuinely produce a new randomised value on each retrigger?

As mentioned above, this is quite useful when making PsyTrance

[Tekalight]

Not sure if the devs had a look into this and what’s possible or not but I will point them to this thread again

[sikdrumz]

Having downloaded the latest version of ANA 2 and read all the update notes, I’m just returning here to add another request for true ‘per note random’ as a mod source.

I guess using an external Velocity randomiser might be a workaround if people have one. Would be great to have it onboard ANA 2 though.

[Heartleader]

+1 Random per Note:

Totally agree with a random per note source could be access via the pull down menu & MOD overview.
In Mod Overview you can change the intensity/range.
80% in my Sounddesign I am looking for this function to easy & fast randomise with one click similar parameters but should be always different randomised when a note hit e.g.:
-Link 1 random per note to all 3 volume for the 3 OSC
-Link 1 random per note to all 3 panning for the 3 OSC
-…
The target is with the note random I can link one random source to multi targets and every modulation of a target (even it comes from the same mod source) is different each time a note hit

2-3 random mod source generator to have different intensity(1-100 - already there) would be enough from my point of view.

Looks like the logic is already implemented:
One workaround is already implemented for the random fine drift per note.
It looks like the logic of random per note is already there.
Is there a reason why you did this fix random per note for drift what effects the pitch and not as a mod source for the fine?
Because the random per not logic is there. It is just fix to one parameter.
It always helps if user understand why and prevent from asking

Question about new drift:
A additional question: The drift pitch is per OSC or is it drift pitch/detune per voice? Was not clear to me in the manual.

LFO:
-Would be great to go from 3 to 6 (I know it is a new skin design)
-Would be gerat to have a curve for the delay function or 6 instead of 4 MOD ENV

Thanks for a insight feedback.

@Tekalight @bryan_spence @phil_johnston

[sikdrumz]

@Heartleader

Note:

Totally agree with a random per note source could be access via the pull down menu & MOD overview.
In Mod Overview you can change the intensity/range.

I have just downloaded 2.5.2, and was dismayed to find the same S/H LFO and no way to produce true per-note random.

Guys, you are selling PsyTrance tutorials on the main website, but your flagship synth cannot randomise properly for PsyTrance…

Please let me know if I’m wrong here- I would love to be!

[chris_agnelli]

we have per note S/H LFO.
to test that you can modulate the pitch of an osc with the S/H lfo, and modulate the rate of the lfo with the keytrack. then if you play 2 notes, you can clearly hear that their pitches are modulated with 2 different lfos (as they don’t have the same rate)

[sikdrumz]

That’s a neat trick, but it’s not really random. It’s still just a short, wonky LFO shape being looped and sampled periodically.

If you let it loop there’s no guarantee it will stay in the same position for the duration of your note. If you set it to re-trigger, it will always start at the same value bcz the source is not truly random like eg. white noise.

PsyTrance makes a lot of use of true random on each press of the SAME note, to move say the cutoff frequency on the filter. There are a lot of great features in ANA, but this is not one of them.

[sikdrumz]

PS the easiest way to make this work might be to allow the LFO to ‘hold’ the value it has at note on, until note off. Then users could set a fast rate and get fairly random values at each note on. You already implement one LFO per voice it seems, so would the ‘hold’ part be a difficult change?