So I have been trying to solve my sub-bass problem for what feels like a year.
It seemed like every track I made had a problem with sub. Around 40hz and below.
It's always either the KICK or the bass synth itself. And its always producer friends that I send our music to, that tell me this. Sometimes I couldnt even believe what they were telling me because it would sound slamming on my monitors... We are cranking out original tracks constantly... and the goal is to make quality club music... and obviously complaints of "no-bass" in electro or dubstep will just piss you off.
Just to be clear... I have the KRK Rockit 8s running through a Saf Pro DSP 24..
I noticed it, in a friend's car, listening to 1 of my songs... that I knew was hitting hard at home on the monitors. But his sub in the car barely hit at all compared to other songs. So I started to dig deeper.
Checking it on the meter on the master... It's clear that its not hitting hard enough at 45hz and below. I noticed that I couldn't notice a big difference on the monitors when I changed EQ settings... but I could hear it on my headphones... I continue to toy around and dig deeper into what is causing this problem for me...
I find solutions like making a sub-bass sine and layering+gelling it with my kick. Other solutions like gates + compressors also helped "kind-of-sort-of" fix the problems with tracks... BUT, the meter still doesnt look like I want it too.
You ever look at a deadmau5 track on the meter? It's a thing of beauty. My track just looked like a gimp dragging it's lazy *** through the spectrum of the song.
Finally i start looking at specs. ****in KRK rockits have a 45hz cutoff. Which is exactly the area that I am lacking in. Coincidence? I think not....
Moral of the story? Know your equipment. Check your stuff. The answer was right in front of my face.
Learned a lot looking for that problem.
//end rant
Where can I get the executive summary from? 
Sounds like you need some h’phones Mate.
[quote]UnitedVision (27/09/2011)[hr]
My track just looked like a gimp dragging it’s lazy *** through the spectrum of the song.
[/quote]
[quote]ICN (27/09/2011)[hr]Where can I get the executive summary from?
Sounds like you need some h’phones Mate.[/quote]
lolol. Yeah i have headphones… but they are not the greatest… I’m sure that would have helped…
BUT, i’m not limited by sound really. i can blast it up as loud as i want where I live.
so long story short… I bought a subwoofer. Just to be sure.
Just to mirror what you said UV - So important to know the limits of your speakers (if there are some) & get a set of H’phones that’ll help ya down the rest of the way.
Otherwise: :crying:
Yeh, and don’t low cut every track @40Hz. Mastering engineers don’t do that.
Thats two bits of kit in 2 days I’ve learnt are not suitable of mine. I have the R5’s.
What sub did you get in the end?
[quote]johnlad (28/09/2011)[hr]Thats two bits of kit in 2 days I’ve learnt are not suitable of mine. I have the R5’s.
What sub did you get in the end?[/quote]
As ICN said, good headphones to check subs are the answer. A sub will probably just cause you more problems.
Cheers. Think it’s time to do some reading / researching again 
[quote]
As ICN said, good headphones to check subs are the answer. A sub will probably just cause you more problems.[/quote]
yar i bought the KRK sub… but i also bought some quality headphones with a nice big range for me. just to be sure.
What i find a problem with sub is how some notes are just louder and more resonant than others, its a fkin nightmare volume automating it all.
I agree with dom about the whole cutting at 40hz, theres no need really. Also alot of people think the frequency spectrum starts at 60hz and everything below that is just rumble and mess. This is not the case. The 40p-60hz region needs to be treated with respect. I think if you really want to be accurate you need to check out a subwoofer or just do a load of cd burns and try listening on as many different systems, taking notes and rinse and repeat.
I just did a trance track and sent it around a bit, i thought it was banging, but listening more carefully i realised how bad it was in the low end. My sub sounded like an old man farting. Its just a constant struggle of trying to get your mixes sounding loud, punchy and having a fat bass. Its possibly the hardest thing in all of sound engineering. It doesnt help that i listen to my friends House stuff and it just makes the room shake its insane.
One thing i can say tho is check the spectrum analysers and compare it with the spectrums of professional tracks to see where you might be off a bit. There are also some cool stereo tools where you can make all the frequencies below a certain point mono. I find this helps a lot with adding some punch. Finally i think people are way too quick at boosting their bass, sometimes a little bit less is more.
Done a little research since this morning. I found a couple of links about sub bass that people might find interesting if they haven’t already read them…
http://audio.tutsplus.com/tutorials/mixing-mastering/how-to-manage-process-sub-bass-frequencies/<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = “urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office” /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
Oh Lawd, now I’m all paranoid about the frequencies of the sub bass on my kick drums after reading this thread…:w00t:
A couple questions as I am still learning about all of this…
Is it better to try and adjust the frequencies of instruments to perfection when building the track, or just get the track completed and then go back and do this in the mastering phase.
Also is Spectrum in Ableton good enough to give me this info?
Well… To answer one part of your question: Why not try & make stuff as perfect as possible before you finish the track? 
Spectrum in Ableton is fine, but everyone here uses Vogengo Span (probably) - it is free and brilliant:
[quote]ICN (28/09/2011)[hr]Well… To answer one part of your question: Why not try & make stuff as perfect as possible before you finish the track? [/quote]
Problem with that is you may not ever finish anything! 
interrupting the flow and all that…
[quote]Mussi81 (28/09/2011)[hr][quote]ICN (28/09/2011)[hr]Well… To answer one part of your question: Why not try & make stuff as perfect as possible before you finish the track? [/quote]
Problem with that is you may not ever finish anything! interrupting the flow and all that…
[/quote]
HaHa
[quote]TheAnt (28/09/2011)[hr]Spectrum in Ableton is fine, but everyone here uses Vogengo Span (probably) - it is free and brilliant:
http://www.voxengo.com/product/span/
[/quote]
I’ll check Vogengo Span out. Thanks
[quote]Mussi81 (28/09/2011)[hr][quote]ICN (28/09/2011)[hr]Well… To answer one part of your question: Why not try & make stuff as perfect as possible before you finish the track? [/quote]
Problem with that is you may not ever finish anything! interrupting the flow and all that…
[/quote]
Yeah, that is what I’m afraid of…:ermm:
certain notes are def better for bass then others. most electro/dubstep is in E, F or G. I notice a lot of house in A, Aminor, B and C. Obviously, this is not Alwayyyyys the case. but there have been research done on topics like this. its mostly because of the freq of these keys. you get way more bass in E, F or G and even D because it is lower on the scale then other notes. simple, but it makes sense when you stop and think about it.
usually when I write, I know what I’m writing. I’ve already written the song on the guitar and I’m working to make it what I want… in past projects i’ve gone and done the whole track (midi, mixing, automation, etc.) and then I would go back and refine to make things better… which is cool… you def “finish” songs quicker… but they are not really finished because it still sounds like muff and you gotta go back and fix the muff.
now though, as I have done this a bunch… i’m realizing that its good to get your ideas down quickly… but not try to bang out the whole track as soon as possible… mostly because as I change sound design, it pretty much will screw up your whole mix & automation. If you really start messing with sounds then you might have to scratch a sound completely and start again… for the simple fact that the sound fundamental is screwing up another sound and just about no ammount of EQ + compression will fix it to be what you “want” it to be.
as i learn more and more about mixing, mastering and fx processing… i am def swaying more to the side of getting things perfect early on in projects. for the simple fact that it can be a nightmare later on during a project when you are constantly changing the dynamics of your song and screwing up your mix when you play with things. it seems easier to me to just get something simple down that you can use to do your sound design… and then go from there. this especially helps if you already know what the song is going to be anyway… the quality of our productions has gone up big time since we started doing this. i think its fun making sounds… so devoting a big portion of time to it in projects is not really a bad thing.
nothing aggravates me more then going back into a project and just being like WTF was I thinking when i did this? it makes me laugh at myself when i think about it.