Here I am with a new track, ready for a final polish before releasing.
There’s a segment I love but also I’m worried about regarding mixing for two reasons: 1 - it’s the most intense and stuffed one. 2 - it has a chorused guitar. That’s entirely new territory to me: 2:30 to 3:50 aprox.
Thai version is pre-mastered at -12 LUFS, but I don’t consider this final. Not at all.
“Metropolis Metropolis - The Dark Wave” by Man from Space
https://soundcloud.com/manfromspace/metropolis-metropolis-darkwave
Another nice track, always curious and surprised when you share a new one 
Not sure about the bass, both in the very repeating and linear pattern and choice of sound. More dynamic and shorter, rounder bass with a tiny higher frequency element might fit the mix better. The very linear pattern would work well at a much more high tempo IMO, in this one it takes over the beats & other elements.
Lot’s of mid range elements in the beat, was expecting more classical low toms fills, but again the bass is taking over the rhythmic elements for me, so it’s a bit more difficult to judge.
Not sure about the stutter effect at 2:06 & 3:42, doesn’t work for me, sounds really too much of a modern effect for the track, same goes with the sci-fi sound effect by the end of the track, quite surprising. That’s just personal to my listening experience on this track, my brain wasn’t able to compute those sounds and didn’t find them nice in the mix, they’ve been identified as alien sounds belonging to another genre of music 
Lot’s of placement in space and use of panning, sounds nice and gives movement to the track but watch out not to spread too much Left or Right and to adjust levels. From a listening point, what I think is that it’s quite pleasant when you just notice that a sound is panned but if too much obvious it can feel like the sounds don’t blend well together and give a feeling of mixing issues.
The chorus on the guitar might be a tiny bit too wet as well, seems you have a reverb on it too, so too much of both effects can make this part sound distant & a bit weak, well that was the impression while listening. Maybe try to reduce those wet signal a tiny bit or maybe using an EQ after the effects to be able to fine adjust the sound.
That’s it for me based on my listening(s), so as usual it’s my very own perception of the track and what could ticked my ears
Cheers !
Thanks for the feedback!
I can’t reply your message properly right now, but I can tell you this:
1 - I closed the bass’ filter in the more intense areas of the track. Things were less muddy after that with no loss on global punchiness, so it seems that I was clearly stuffing things too much. I also removed a bit of upper-mid range in the bass using a fixed EQ.
2 - besides that, I tweaked the bass’ envelope curve. The attack and decay stay the same, but the decay is initially faster. So far, the bass is perceived pretty much the same, but again it feels a bit less invasive. Thankfully I used ANA for the bass, Dune 3 does not allow envelope curve tweaking.
3 - These changes let me extra room for the more intense moment of the track, and maybe I don’t need to abuse panning that much around 3:30 mark.
4 - I didn’t touch the guitars yet, but they now sound much more clear and more catchy, this is where removing removing clutter from the bass track becomes more noticeable.
I could not upload the changes yet, but so far, it seems like there’s room for improvement and you put me on the right track.
Thanks! I will update this as soon as possible.
Update here: I cleaned stuff a bit and adjusted the guitar and pads even further to leave room for the main instruments. I mostly removed frequencies here and there, getting advantage of FabFilter Pro-Q ability to show frequency clashing. It also happens that I forgot to remove some low end from two tracks that don’t need low end at all (electric guitar and pads) 
I also started tweaking the end result. I am aiming at about 13-14LUFS and a dynamic range of about 9dB. In order to increase the dynamic range I actually didn’t tweak compressors or limiters at first. I just got rid of a pad section and an arpeggio in a verse. No-one is going to miss any of those two. I’m becoming more proficient at becoming rid of stuff.
I hope all this stuff I’m doing makes sense.
I’m still unable to listen to this on speakers, but I honestly think latest tweaks made this thing sound better. The whole track has been produced and mixed using headphones due to quarantine.
Thanks!
EDIT: Updated source file.
EDIT 2: Also published the track in KVR, and as usual, the feedback goes from useless smartass to plain rude. If I wasn’t SO BORED due to lockdown, I would never visit KVR.
Is the above link pointing o the new version ? Because it says 9 days old and kept the listening number ( or does a new upload replaced the file & just keep the stats ? → Yeah, showing now how often I upload tracks…LOL.
KVR forums is a Jungle, LOL. Sometime useful for discussion on plugins or if you’re a developer but always hard to have objective comments. That said there’s no comparison between their forums activity and here on S.A, so the more peeps you have… 
Regarding SoundCloud: when I upload a new version, it replaces the old one and keeps both the stats and the comments, but sometimes it takes a while to stream the new version.
I can update tracks because I pay for the Pro version, free users can’t do that.
OK then, it makes sense, just got rid of my Pro subscription this month since I wasn’t using it TBH 
Will have a new listen and update comment later on then
OK, having a new listening as I write now. Listening on Headphones with Sonarworks correction on this time.
For me everything synths is great, the drums are also good, maybe level up a tiny bit the kick and reduce the snares level, that’s all. Guitar parts is now much more clear and with a good stereo spread. Still don’t cope with that “stutter” effect, LOL.
Now the issue I’m still having is the bass, it’s not sharp enough for me, you might tweak it a lot and improve it but have you simply tried to use another sound ? After spending quite some time to make a sound work & fit in the mix, I think it can make sense to question the source sound and maybe try replacement.
At last I can reply. Sorry it took so long.
I agree regarding the kick and snare. It’s not a big deal on my studio headphones, but yesterday I listened to it in my car and another pair of headphones… and yes, Impossible not to notice it, both the kick and the snare.
Regarding the stutter effect, here’s the thing: the track is being written for a video art exhibition and this stutter effect is in sync with the video narrative. If we change the audio, we also need to change the video, or find something else that fits. So that one is “on hold” for the moment.
Regarding the rest, I decided to step back a little:
And that’s it for now. I hope it gets somewhere. Thanks for the help.
I’m sure it gets somewhere, it’s already a nice track, rework for the bass might very well push it further IMO.
I now understand why you kept the stutter effect, it makes sense if linked to a video, was really wondering why you were keeping that sound in such track
I think you nailed many aspects of music production in this genre, you’re now probably reaching the point where it’s about those 10% to really make them stand out and that’s not the easiest part for sure. Self critical listening is an additional quality here and you have that mind set, so it can only get better.
wow. excellent, except for the stutter. feels weird.
Thanks!
Well, I updated the track (link is the same). Now I can say it is more interesting, it sounds better, and it sounds less like New Order’s Blue Monday.
https://soundcloud.com/manfromspace/metropolis-metropolis-darkwave
And I could remove the stutter! We’re doing something entirely different for the video.
Still on the fence for some details that I added during the last two days, just to see if they stick and pass the test of time. But so far, I think it moved forward.
Thanks!
Hi there @nachenko
I also think it’s going in the right direction & being able to get rid of the stutter effect is definitely a good point
Now a question : are you mixing this for any 3.1 or 5.1 speakers system for the final project purpose ?
You’re developing an addiction to binaural and stereo placement
I know you’re mixing on headphones and the track sounds much better that way, but when listening on monitors, the contrast between mono/stereo and placement of elements in depth field and panning is too pronounced for me, which is kind of funny because I feel a lack of contrast in this regard with many Track Feedback listening here. In your case it’s the opposite thing. What tools are you using to place elements into stereo & depth field ? ( is it Sennheiser AMBEO ? ), because not only the stereo spread is a bit drastic but you can really tell that some elements are placed in the front and some others pushed backward. Again, sounding quite nice on headphones because of binaural perception I think, but on monitors it’s kind of making many elements very much separated and therefore the all mix doesn’t blend really well, if that makes sense.
That said it’s an interesting technique that can add a lot to a track I think, might just need some tweaks to get the right amount, not an easy one to nail IMO.
Answer is very simple, actually: my monitors are currently decoration. Still at home with my kids, school still closed, absolutely no opportunities to do anything at home with a minimal amount of silence. And for icing to the cake, I live at about 100 meters from a highway. I use headphones the whole time. Best shot I have at building a proper stereo image is comparing to a reference track.
No, I’m not mixing for 5:1. I have neither the gear nor the experience. I have AMBEO installed, but I don’t use it. It’s all Ableton’s Utility plugin, panning control and a bit of Masterdesk, but this is actually good news, because I can just reduce any track width at will in seconds. In other words, if I EVER get to listen to the track in a clean environment, I’ll have a real shot at finding the real balance. Maybe someday…
Of course, I could use some education on this subject.
As a good takeaway, no-one is complaining about any frequency WAAAAAY out of place, so replacing my ancients AKG for a pair of Beyerdynamic DT 770 was a good move.
I think I’ll be able to listen to this in silence (sort of) tomorrow morning (except for the highway). Let’s see what can I get from there.
Thanks for the help. I’ll pay attention to the stereo image… when real life gives me a break.
Yeah, I can imagine it’s definitely not the perfect listening environment.
Only heard good things about the Beyerdynamic DT 770, so yep good move for sure.
If you just used Live Utility, then it’s just a matter of using the right amount & fine tune the settings. I’m far away to have a perfect listening environment too, so you’ll be able to judge by yourself when you get a chance to listen to the track in a different place.
Hope things will get easier & better in a soon future
Ooook, seems like it sounds better now. I trashed Brainworx Masterdesk, I think forever, and replaced it with Ozone 9 Elements preceded by Ableton’s own multiband compressor to control localized peaks before entering Ozone.
Besides that, Ozone’s Stereo separation module sounds to me more realistic than the one at Masterdesk.
I’ll let this one sleep for a week or so.
Thanks for your help!
Back in my days we would have said: phat. I have no clue what the word means in English, maybe a play on the similar sounding German word “fett” (fat), because you would also hear “fettes Teil” (fat piece). I really like the part around 1:30 when the synth melody moves from 1987 more towards 1982.
Sounds nice, only suggestion for me is the bass sounding a bit dull and muddy, it’s missing some upper range harmonics to cut through and bring more clarity & presence. Either possible with an EQ by cutting the mud area & boosting upper harmonics or need to change the source, sometimes it’s interesting to try other presets/samples.
For Ozone VS Bx_Masterdesk, I don’t think it’s only the tools making the difference in the end, it starts with having a good mix-down reaching your Master Channel. I agree that Ozone offers a lot more controls and that of course we’re dealing with different pieces of software, thus different algorithms that might not perform the same way, but in the end polishing a Mix & even Mastering a track should only involves a few tweaks and that’s exactly what makes Mixing so difficult. So while all those tools & plugins can surely “enhance” a Mix, they can’t really fix issues on individual channels.
Well, it seems like I got a small achievement with this one. It got featured and voted “release of the week” in Synthwave Release Radar.
It’s worth saying that this required getting as much help from this forum as I could get.
Thanks @Tekalight and @kuchenchef for your help and comments.
This is the final version: