[quote]5id (27/04/2011)[hr]Some interesting tips that makes what im gonna say sound pants.
I found when i first started producing i would make the kick and the bass far too loud then when adding other elements to the track they would get lost fighting against the kick and the bass.
Now i start a track with lower kick and bass levels and find it easier to add more to the mix.
[/quote]
just make sure the kick is always the loudest. you can fix the bass. if you drop the volume of the kick TOO much then when you drop everything in, the kick is lost…
the kick is always dead center and the most prominent thing in the track.
so if volume starts at 0 then the kick is at 0. everything else is underneath…
This is not to say that you might want to play with the sample itself and drop the volume of it.
I’ll say it again… If the kick’s not right, the rest of the track won’t be right… because if the kick’s not right, then all your sidechains & mixing relative to the kick will be wrong.
UV,
Some tracks actually have a kick that is felt more than it is heard. Do you do that sometimes, and if so, how do you manage it? I sometimes like the kick to be a bit in the back…
J
[quote]UnitedVision (27/04/2011)[hr][quote]5id (27/04/2011)[hr]Some interesting tips that makes what im gonna say sound pants.
I found when i first started producing i would make the kick and the bass far too loud then when adding other elements to the track they would get lost fighting against the kick and the bass.
Now i start a track with lower kick and bass levels and find it easier to add more to the mix.
[/quote]
just make sure the kick is always the loudest. you can fix the bass. if you drop the volume of the kick TOO much then when you drop everything in, the kick is lost…
the kick is always dead center and the most prominent thing in the track.
so if volume starts at 0 then the kick is at 0. everything else is underneath…
This is not to say that you might want to play with the sample itself and drop the volume of it.
I’ll say it again… If the kick’s not right, the rest of the track won’t be right… because if the kick’s not right, then all your sidechains & mixing relative to the kick will be wrong.
[/quote]
My kick is always at -12db from the start and every thing is below that
Felt more than heard?
When I want a rounder sound… I just usually take a LP Shelf right down, til most of the highs are gone. Still keep it @ -6 though 
Dont know if thats right or wrong, but I like the way it sounds.
[quote]JamieinNC (27/04/2011)[hr]UV,
Some tracks actually have a kick that is felt more than it is heard. Do you do that sometimes, and if so, how do you manage it? I sometimes like the kick to be a bit in the back…
J
[quote]UnitedVision (27/04/2011)[hr][quote]5id (27/04/2011)[hr]Some interesting tips that makes what im gonna say sound pants.
I found when i first started producing i would make the kick and the bass far too loud then when adding other elements to the track they would get lost fighting against the kick and the bass.
Now i start a track with lower kick and bass levels and find it easier to add more to the mix.
[/quote]
just make sure the kick is always the loudest. you can fix the bass. if you drop the volume of the kick TOO much then when you drop everything in, the kick is lost…
the kick is always dead center and the most prominent thing in the track.
so if volume starts at 0 then the kick is at 0. everything else is underneath…
This is not to say that you might want to play with the sample itself and drop the volume of it.
I’ll say it again… If the kick’s not right, the rest of the track won’t be right… because if the kick’s not right, then all your sidechains & mixing relative to the kick will be wrong.
[/quote][/quote]
Like ICN. I prefer a nice round kick. I went them to feel it & hear it.
Listen to ANY top 10 track on beatport and its always the same. kick dead center.
Using a lowpass filter on a kick that is already perfect would give you the effect of feeling a kick without actually hearing the hit/click. The trick is just finding the pocket and playing with the resonance. Im sure you could prob also accomplish this with an EQ, I prefer something like the WOW filter to accomplish that. But you could do it with ableton as well. I usually do tricks with the kick during the intro/outro/superbuildups that allow you to get the feel of the kick in the track without actually being as loud as it can be. This allows for space during these times to do audio tricks + interesting things without screwing up the flow of the track.
Because I make the kick 0 in volume, its pretty loud so if you DONT want it that loud, I always use a filter to change the levels of the kick. That way you just have to automate the frequency at a point and you get the same thing. Using a filter allows you to accomplish this better then EQ or automating volume… IMO
But automating Volume with Utility - Gain > automating volume directly in impulse/ableton.
[quote]slender (27/04/2011)[hr]My kick is always at -12db from the start and every thing is below that[/quote]
LOL. its ok for you cause you make techno!
bad joke i know… so here is my real response.
I think this happens to a lot of people… ableton does this to me as well.
As soon as I drop an impulse into a channel the audio is automatically dropped -12db in impulse.
The problem with this is that now everything in your track is going to be -12db.
The first thing I do is bring that impulse back up to 0. That way when I am actually trying to make/perfect/evolve a kick throughout a track. I am working with standard 0 for db. The kick is as it should be at standard volume.
Once you start EQ/filter/limiter/blah blah the volume is gunna drop a little anyway. And you can always drop the volume through the limiter or a utility. I’d rather do it through a limiter like FAB FILTER PRO L then the impulse plugin.
BUT… i find that when you write a WHOLE track from 0 rather then -12 a couple things happen. First it sounds better if you do your mixing correctly. Its louder, fatter, and bigger then a -12 track. It is MUCH more ready to master, the reason for this being that all you have to do is drop the output on the master channel if you want to create a little space for an engineer… but at the same time your track is already PRO sounding because its loud and in your face… so there is not as much of a difference when something is mastered.
I read an interesting tweet the other day from a favorite DJ of mine saying that his tracks all sound the same prior to being mastered because they are loud from the get-go…
just my experience on it!
Great pointers.
I learned during the Mastering Audio course I took through Berklee that the easiest job for a mastering engineer is getting a group of tracks/stems that are MIXED as well as they can be mixed. Of course, I’m completely convinced that engineers drink a completely different cup of coffee from the rest of us, and have the ability to make any track sound “pro” regardless of whether it is mixed perfectly or not. If I ever get a good collection of tunes together, I’ll make sure to spend the money to have it completed correctly through a high-end engineer.
That’ll teach that kick! (hah!)
J
[quote]UnitedVision (27/04/2011)[hr][quote]slender (27/04/2011)[hr]My kick is always at -12db from the start and every thing is below that[/quote]
LOL. its ok for you cause you make techno!
bad joke i know… so here is my real response.
I think this happens to a lot of people… ableton does this to me as well.
As soon as I drop an impulse into a channel the audio is automatically dropped -12db in impulse.
The problem with this is that now everything in your track is going to be -12db.
The first thing I do is bring that impulse back up to 0. That way when I am actually trying to make/perfect/evolve a kick throughout a track. I am working with standard 0 for db. The kick is as it should be at standard volume.
Once you start EQ/filter/limiter/blah blah the volume is gunna drop a little anyway. And you can always drop the volume through the limiter or a utility. I’d rather do it through a limiter like FAB FILTER PRO L then the impulse plugin.
BUT… i find that when you write a WHOLE track from 0 rather then -12 a couple things happen. First it sounds better if you do your mixing correctly. Its louder, fatter, and bigger then a -12 track. It is MUCH more ready to master, the reason for this being that all you have to do is drop the output on the master channel if you want to create a little space for an engineer… but at the same time your track is already PRO sounding because its loud and in your face… so there is not as much of a difference when something is mastered.
I read an interesting tweet the other day from a favorite DJ of mine saying that his tracks all sound the same prior to being mastered because they are loud from the get-go…
just my experience on it!
[/quote]
[quote]JamieinNC (27/04/2011)[hr]Great pointers.
I learned during the Mastering Audio course I took through Berklee that the easiest job for a mastering engineer is getting a group of tracks/stems that are MIXED as well as they can be mixed. Of course, I’m completely convinced that engineers drink a completely different cup of coffee from the rest of us, and have the ability to make any track sound “pro” regardless of whether it is mixed perfectly or not. If I ever get a good collection of tunes together, I’ll make sure to spend the money to have it completed correctly through a high-end engineer.
That’ll teach that kick! (hah!)
J
[/quote]
exactly. if you do a mixdown properly, the mastering is a cake walk.
[quote]slender (27/04/2011)[hr]My kick is always at -12db from the start and every thing is below that[/quote]
I do this as well
Cool - I’ll try that on my next rmx project and post what I think 
Ah… but the -12 thing is specific best practice for Ableton!
[quote]ICN (27/04/2011)[hr]Ah… but the -12 thing is specific best practice for Ableton![/quote]
Good point icn
[quote]slender (27/04/2011)[hr]Cool - I’ll try that on my next rmx project and post what I think ;)[/quote]
Try what? 
[quote]ICN (27/04/2011)[hr][quote]slender (27/04/2011)[hr]Cool - I’ll try that on my next rmx project and post what I think ;)[/quote]
Try what? :)[/quote]
Wasn’t talking too you
Good… didnt want to have to make up some insincere reply
Hahaha! Best post of the thread so far…(well, that isn’t informative)
[quote]Mussi81 (27/04/2011)[hr][quote]slender (27/04/2011)[hr]My kick is always at -12db from the start and every thing is below that[/quote]
I do this as well[/quote]
I do this as well.
[quote]ICN (27/04/2011)[hr]Ah… but the -12 thing is specific best practice for Ableton![/quote]
LOL. Well you use logic. So I gotta question for you…
Do you drop your kick -12DB every time you drop it in?
Do you use a sampler or do you just drop the audio into the channel?
The only reason I ask is that my friends that use logic all say they just drop the kick in as audio…
But I know their not instantly dropping the kick -12dbs… So why does ableton?
f*ck if i know…
I only drop the Kick in as Audio.
I do use a sampler in Logic. .but havent thought about that until now… Will check it out
[quote]UnitedVision (27/04/2011)[hr][quote]ICN (27/04/2011)[hr]Ah… but the -12 thing is specific best practice for Ableton![/quote]
LOL. Well you use logic. So I gotta question for you…
Do you drop your kick -12DB every time you drop it in?
Do you use a sampler or do you just drop the audio into the channel?
The only reason I ask is that my friends that use logic all say they just drop the kick in as audio…
But I know their not instantly dropping the kick -12dbs… So why does ableton?
f*ck if i know…
[/quote]
[quote]slender (27/04/2011)[hr]Cool - I’ll try that on my next rmx project and post what I think ;)[/quote]
Yah I mean everybody has what they wanna do… People can do whatever they want…Im just saying its something ive been doing the past few months and its been working for me in ableton…
Some people will say OH well now the kick is too loud if you bring it up to 0…
I say, first check and make sure that your EQ is right and then your filters.
Cut before you boost! Less is more.
Most importantly, make sure you have the right kind of kick for the style of track your making. I make electro & dubstep which use HUGE kicks. Not exactly the same as say a minimal track where the kick is a little less bass and more click. But you still want the bass when your playing it in a club system…
So I know that your track is prob gunna be techno Slender (dunno how I came to that conclusion :D)… so as long as your not picking some SUPEr trance kick or gigantic electro kick sample (i know your not) just pick your normal techno/minimal kick samples that you like and try it that way. if you eq/filter correctly they will still sound the same as you want them, but they will be louder and consequently, so will the rest of your track.
at this point if you want to bring the volume of the kick down. no problem.
either use a limiter or bring the channel volume down, but I don’t do it in impulse.