I had a similar conversation with my buddy last night. He mentioned that if you can make the Beatport top 10, thats where you strike it big. He said that just for one top 10 Beatport chart, you can make 10k-30k right off rip. Thats not including DJ Download, Juno, iTunes, etc. He brought up someone like Wolfgang Gartner, who is making some wicked tracks right now, but they are very specific too. In other words, he is making them to cater to a specific crowd, and he is breaking the Beatport top 10 all the time. Hence, he is basically PRINTING his own money. He can’t afford to do something different because if he was approached to do a remix for 5k, he would be like FU! He prints money right now and because of his popularity, he can bank that he will make that 5k at least 3 fold by releasing his own stuff. I dunno. You don’t have to DJ to make money. But just like anything, you don’t make it big unless you make great songs. The big labels like the Toolrooms and the Armada Musics of the world aren’t in the business to release mediocre music. They release slammin tracks, that (from a business aspect) are gonna make alot of money. You as a producer, can make CRAZY money if you are talented enough. Do you think Funkagenda puts out crappy music? NO! He only releases the best of the best that he makes. Him and other artists that I know (that are his caliber) save the mediocre stuff like the remixes, mashups and stuff for the radio shows, podcasts and that sort of stuff. But they dont release them. Because they dont release **** just to release it.
Interesting thread, and some interesting views.
This is a subject I have been looking into quite a lot recently, as it is something I have considered doing myself. Also I am keen to write some articles on it to let people know exactly how to do it.
I might add to the mix the following points, firstly, yes I wouldn’t do it for direct financial gain. Certainly not unless you were planning on doing it full time, probably seeking some sort of investment etc etc.
However it can be something you can make into a serious hobby I feel. It’s important to make a distinction too, between self distribution, and setting up your own label.
Anyone can get a tune on iTunes/Amazon and many many other online stores (apparently even beatport I am told) pretty easily. For say a nominal fee of about £30 (this varies from distributor to distributor). You can do all of this without setting up a label, fire and forget, one off.
A label is a bit more complex as you have to think about branding, marketing, mastering contacts, and a bag load of other stuff, but still, it can all be done easily enough if you are willing to put the effort in.
With regards to Jon’s comment about the increase in dross tunes due to the ease of getting music out there… indeed this is true, but if you have ever been to a second hand record shop and had a flick through the 12" singles from the 70s/80s/90s you will find plenty of dross there too. People have always released rubbish, anyone remember that scene from Scratch with DJ Shadown in the record store basement?.
Also don’t forget, people have been self publishing since punk and beynod in the 70’s where quality control also wasn’t a consideration.
All in… there are many factors at play. I am thinking about setting up a digital label, because I love music, and want to put out music I love, whether it be mine or other peoples. An act of passion. I am willing to chance losing a few bob for the opportunity of giving it ago and possibly loving it.
I’ve got a fair few contacts, and people who have done it themselves too back in the vinyl days etc.
Bottom line, do it if you love it and don’t mind losing some cash for the experience. I most likely will in the new year, so hey I’ll let you know how it all goes anyway!
[quote]bangthedj (10/29/2009)[hr]
Anyone can get a tune on iTunes/Amazon and many many other online stores (apparently even beatport I am told) pretty easily. [/quote]
I read on another forum that beatport is a bitch to get tracks put on. They want a history of releases etc and won’t even consider taking on a new label that has not had at least 6 previous successful releases.
It makes business sense as if they just took on tracks from any aul eejit their site would be swamped with utter junk, it would take forever to find anything good and people would just look elsewhere.
[quote]howiegroove (10/29/2009)[hr]He said that just for one top 10 Beatport chart, you can make 10k-30k right off rip. [/quote]
I’m pretty sure that isn’t accurate, certainly not for some of the more niche catergories where a few hundred sales can get you into the top 10. I read an article about this somewhere else and the 10-30K seems a bit much even for the bigger categories (house/minimal etc).
Was it just your mate coming off with these figures or does he have something to back it up? I mean, how does he know how much Wolfgang is making from Beatport so that he can turn down 5K remix requests?
[quote]seandevoy (11/2/2009)[hr][quote]howiegroove (10/29/2009)[hr]He said that just for one top 10 Beatport chart, you can make 10k-30k right off rip. [/quote]
I’m pretty sure that isn’t accurate, certainly not for some of the more niche catergories where a few hundred sales can get you into the top 10. I read an article about this somewhere else and the 10-30K seems a bit much even for the bigger categories (house/minimal etc).
Was it just your mate coming off with these figures or does he have something to back it up? I mean, how does he know how much Wolfgang is making from Beatport so that he can turn down 5K remix requests?[/quote]
Lets just put it this way. My friend works for a big label. I will not reveal his name because, really, it shouldn’t matter. I will say, that it isn’t BS. Plus, I was just using Wolfgang as an example because the guy is producing hit after hit at this moment. He makes a very popular style of electronic music right now and alot of people are eating it up. Think about it though. At $2 per track, $10,000 isnt alot of money really. I really dont think 5000 song purchases is alot TBH. Remember too, I said a top 10 Beatport song. I’m not speaking out of my *** here either. I’m just relaying information to a community that I belong to. And the ones that know me here, including the people that run the site that I talk to, know who my label connection is. Like I said, I’m just passing on info to share.
But think about it. Its economics. If you were making amazing music that was making you a combined $25,000 per release, and you were able to put out 1 big track every 2 months, thats a good chunk of change every couple months. Why would you want to waste your time remixing something a bit lackluster for a measily $5000? I wouldn’t! I would be very, very selective. When you are on top of your game, you can afford to be choosy. Same thing with Mark Knight. If I came to him with $5,000 and asked him to remix my song, he would probably laugh in my face. He can go anywhere else and command $10k to $15k for a remix. If you want the hottest producers to do remix work, you have to pay their rate. It’s the same reason David Guetta would turn down a DJ gig for $5000 on a weekend night. His popularity demands a higher rate, and frankly, he would probably laugh in the face of the promoter who offered that to him.
Also, forgot to mention that I’m talking in United States Dollars. If you’re in the UK, that $30,000 would be like 15,000 Pounds.
Howie, your figures mate are quite deluded. We’ve booked massive big name artists for remixes and also club gigs at a lot lower figures than you’re quoting.
I think someone might have told you wrong figures or there must have been a mistake somewhere along the line.
So you’re saying that you would be able to book David Guetta… the third rated dj in DJ Magazine’s top DJ’s list for $5,000? How is that diluted? Especially when DJ’s like Tiesto can EASILY make over 20,000 Euros per night. Prove me wrong. PLEASE!
By the way, I know for a FACT, that my friend works for the label’s boss WILL NOT take less then $7,000 to DJ. Even on a Thursday night!
Understand, that I’m talking about big producers and big labels. I would challenge you to prove me wrong.
[quote]roben (11/2/2009)[hr]Howie, your figures mate are quite deluded. We’ve booked massive big name artists for remixes and also club gigs at a lot lower figures than you’re quoting.[/quote]
How big were the names? Specify what they did and a roundabout on what they were paid for remixing. Who were the names you booked to DJ? What was their quote? For the remix, were they washed up when the did the remix or were they still pumping out chart toppers?
[quote]roben (11/2/2009)[hr]I think someone might have told you wrong figures or there must have been a mistake somewhere along the line.
[/quote]
Well, I doubt my friend would really lie to me. He was in my wedding. Is one of my best friends. And… HE HAS NO REASON TO LIE!
We had a discussion as to what some of the top producers could make. But like I said, please prove me wrong.
[quote]roben (11/2/2009)[hr]Howie, your figures mate are quite deluded. We’ve booked massive big name artists for remixes and also club gigs at a lot lower figures than you’re quoting.
I think someone might have told you wrong figures or there must have been a mistake somewhere along the line.
[/quote]
who have you booked roben. i don’t think these figures are that far off, look at deadmau5 he sold 30000 copies of not exactly and has been a constantly big seller on beat port. from what i’ve read you need to be shifting over 1000 copies to make beatports top 700 (was in dj tech mag)
i also paid for a mr mauro picotto to play at a gig a few years back and if at the time i got him for £5k i would have been a happy man but trust me you could add some on top of that
Don't Beatport take 40%? then the label another 30%.. doesn't seem to leave a lot of money if you're not a big dog
Here Roben… I came up with a great idea. I would like you to book David Guetta. Book him for a Friday or Saturday night for at least a 60 minute set. There will have to be at least a $20USD entrance fee for the club night. If you can get him for under $5000USD, I will pay for it out of my own pocket. Otherwise, you have to fork out the cash… Deal?
[quote]mat1 (11/2/2009)[hr]
Don’t Beatport take 40%? then the label another 30%… doesn’t seem to leave a lot of money if you’re not a big dog[/quote]
yeah beat port take either 25% then the record label take probably 10% on the bigger acts
[quote]mat1 (11/2/2009)[hr]
Don’t Beatport take 40%? then the label another 30%… doesn’t seem to leave a lot of money if you’re not a big dog[/quote]
Honestly, I don’t know the answer to that question, but I believe it is something that is worked out with the label. You would never deal with Beatport personally unless you owned your own label.
sorry for some reason my post seemed to edit itself, Beatpot will take 25 to 50% and a record label will take anywhere from 10 to 50% depending on the size of the artist. no big name is going to sign to a label that’s gonna take 50% not when they have a tone of labels to pick from.
unknown artist have to be less picky with who the sign with and you’ll probably get royally screwed on your first few deals.
but if you take for instance that most of the top 100 on beatport own their labels if they are selling 10 to 20k copies even after you take away the commission you are still talking big money especially when you take into consideration that the same track will be on beatport, audiojelly, trackitdown itunes and all the others
[quote]jon_fisher (11/2/2009)[hr]sorry for some reason my post seemed to edit itself, Beatpot will take 25 to 50% and a record label will take anywhere from 10 to 50% depending on the size of the artist. no big name is going to sign to a label that’s gonna take 50% not when they have a tone of labels to pick from.
unknown artist have to be less picky with who the sign with and you’ll probably get royally screwed on your first few deals.
but if you take for instance that most of the top 100 on beatport own their labels if they are selling 10 to 20k copies even after you take away the commission you are still talking big money especially when you take into consideration that the same track will be on beatport, audiojelly, trackitdown itunes and all the others[/quote]
Just out of curiosity as it wasn’t mentioned in the previous posts, can things such as licensing the records for compilations and mix-cds increase the amount of revenue for the artist, or would all moneys gained from this go to the record label alone? (as they effectively hold the rights to any track in question).
[quote]costa093 (11/3/2009)[hr][quote]jon_fisher (11/2/2009)[hr]sorry for some reason my post seemed to edit itself, Beatpot will take 25 to 50% and a record label will take anywhere from 10 to 50% depending on the size of the artist. no big name is going to sign to a label that’s gonna take 50% not when they have a tone of labels to pick from.
unknown artist have to be less picky with who the sign with and you’ll probably get royally screwed on your first few deals.
but if you take for instance that most of the top 100 on beatport own their labels if they are selling 10 to 20k copies even after you take away the commission you are still talking big money especially when you take into consideration that the same track will be on beatport, audiojelly, trackitdown itunes and all the others[/quote]
Just out of curiosity as it wasn’t mentioned in the previous posts, can things such as licensing the records for compilations and mix-cds increase the amount of revenue for the artist, or would all moneys gained from this go to the record label alone? (as they effectively hold the rights to any track in question).[/quote]
Realistically a couple of pence per CD.
[quote]costa093 (11/3/2009)[hr][quote]jon_fisher (11/2/2009)[hr]sorry for some reason my post seemed to edit itself, Beatpot will take 25 to 50% and a record label will take anywhere from 10 to 50% depending on the size of the artist. no big name is going to sign to a label that’s gonna take 50% not when they have a tone of labels to pick from.
unknown artist have to be less picky with who the sign with and you’ll probably get royally screwed on your first few deals.
but if you take for instance that most of the top 100 on beatport own their labels if they are selling 10 to 20k copies even after you take away the commission you are still talking big money especially when you take into consideration that the same track will be on beatport, audiojelly, trackitdown itunes and all the others[/quote]
Just out of curiosity as it wasn’t mentioned in the previous posts, can things such as licensing the records for compilations and mix-cds increase the amount of revenue for the artist, or would all moneys gained from this go to the record label alone? (as they effectively hold the rights to any track in question).[/quote]
any format that your track gets used on will increase the revenue, as already mentioned cd’s will only add pence but tv commercials, radio and film could be great for you.
radio one pay quite well for tracks i’ve been told but obviously not gonna do much with just one radio play, if the radio dj likes your track and airs on almost every show this could rack up nicely over a period of time
i would like to add that some station pay per track they play while others pay a daily fee that covers everything they play