I’m not gonna say who out of you two but I get tired of the I know this and that , I know this person, people know me , arrogant attitude . You pissed me off a couple of weeks ago when I accidently put a post in the wrong category and you gave me a rude comment about it. I think you need to be more humble about the things you say.
[quote]tommyt (11/3/2009)[hr]I’m not gonna say who out of you two but I get tired of the I know this and that , I know this person, people know me , arrogant attitude . You pissed me off a couple of weeks ago when I accidently put a post in the wrong category and you gave me a rude comment about it. I think you need to be more humble about the things you say.[/quote]
I know the guy who used to be in tiswas ,you know the guy with the bovine eyes ,cool innit 
[quote]tommyt (11/3/2009)[hr]I’m not gonna say who out of you two but I get tired of the I know this and that , I know this person, people know me , arrogant attitude . You pissed me off a couple of weeks ago when I accidently put a post in the wrong category and you gave me a rude comment about it. I think you need to be more humble about the things you say.[/quote]
Tommyt I take it you mean this reply:
“For future reference, there is a tunes section where you can post your own projects.”
Doesn’t sound rude to me bro … if anything I think Howie was just redirecting you to a better place to promote your track.
[quote]jon_fisher (11/3/2009)[hr][quote]egg2 (11/3/2009)[hr]hey man ,roben strikes me as a good guy im sure he didnt mean to sound aggresive with what he said.
At the end of the day be a shame to fall out over a difference of opinion ?:)[/quote]
I personally think there are a lot of good guys on this forum but at the same time we can all be very opinionated (spelling) i’m the first to put my hands upto that, i agree its a shame for people to fall out over something that should really just be a collection of views but we have to expect these things from time to time[/quote]
Agreed. Somebody’s opinion on a subject can greatly depend on their own experience on that subject, which is where everybody differs, so there is never 100% agreement. Never a bad thing though as it’s always great to hear different people’s opinions and experiences and take all into account (being less experienced in some topics or issues, it is for me anyway).
[quote]krome (11/3/2009)[hr]Handbags at dawn.:D[/quote]
I started a thread and incited a riot! lol 
[quote]costa093 (11/4/2009)[hr][quote]krome (11/3/2009)[hr]Handbags at dawn.:D[/quote]
I started a thread and incited a riot! lol :P[/quote]
costa, I now have this mental image of you sitting in your concrete bunker, sipping brandy with a huge cigar stuck out your mouth whilst simultaneously pushing little markers around a map. Occasionally running out of the bunker to lob a few strategically well placed grenades.
lol just kidding man.
My name most likely gives it away but I’m actually Greek (by origin), so with that - the brandy and huge cigar are spot on. If you read my post about the problems I’d been having with the neighbor’s dog, the second part is borderline accurate as well…
(And before anybody asks, no, I don’t own a Kebab shop, parade around in a vest or don a Stalin-style mustache).
[quote]mat1 (11/3/2009)[hr][quote]costa093 (11/3/2009)[hr][quote]jon_fisher (11/2/2009)[hr]sorry for some reason my post seemed to edit itself, Beatpot will take 25 to 50% and a record label will take anywhere from 10 to 50% depending on the size of the artist. no big name is going to sign to a label that’s gonna take 50% not when they have a tone of labels to pick from.
unknown artist have to be less picky with who the sign with and you’ll probably get royally screwed on your first few deals.
but if you take for instance that most of the top 100 on beatport own their labels if they are selling 10 to 20k copies even after you take away the commission you are still talking big money especially when you take into consideration that the same track will be on beatport, audiojelly, trackitdown itunes and all the others[/quote]
Just out of curiosity as it wasn’t mentioned in the previous posts, can things such as licensing the records for compilations and mix-cds increase the amount of revenue for the artist, or would all moneys gained from this go to the record label alone? (as they effectively hold the rights to any track in question).[/quote]
Realistically a couple of pence per CD.[/quote]
Thanks again for answering my questions guys
With regard to licensing for CDs/compilations, do you mean the overall breakdown works out to a couple of pence per CD, and that those looking to license tracks would usually pay only a single upfront amount to the artist/label?
It's kind of complicated as it depends on how many people will be taking a cut and how many tracks are on the compilation. Here's a good article, the numbers need be brought down by about 30% percent though.
It's long!
This is an extract from an interview with Toby Marks from Banco De Gaia.
"These days, £12.99 is a common retail price, so I'll start there. From that figure, 17.5 percent VAT is paid to the government by the shop, so subtract £1.93 and you have a net of £11.06. Shops generally mark up about 50 percent on the wholesale price charged by the distributor, so in this case the dealer price is £7.37, of which 17.5 percent VAT is paid to government by the distributor. Many shops get a discount due to their buying power; small independent labels might get a few percent, while big chains like HMV or Virgin might secure around 10 or even 15 percent. I'll assume an average discount of eight percent, so the net to the distributor will be £6.78. The distributor takes usually between 20 and 25 percent commission, but for this example I'll say 25 percent. That means that the net to the label is £5.09, of which 17.5 percent VAT has to be paid to government by the label, if the label is VAT registered.
"The MCPS (Mechanical Copyright Protection Society) take 8.5 percent of the published dealer price, which, in this case, is 8.5 percent of £7.37. (Bear in mind that the set dealer price declared by the label is not necessarily what they actually receive from the retailers if a discount deal has been struck.) In this example the MCPS collect 63p. This is eventually passed on to the publisher, if there is one, or the songwriter(s), less MCPS commission, which I think is around seven percent. If there is a publisher, they will then take 20 to 30 percent before eventually, many months later, passing the rest on to the songwriter or writers.
"Manufacturing costs vary hugely, depending on quantity and packaging, but if you keep the artwork and packaging simple, a fair figure for a run of 1000 CDs is 60p each. Promotion costs can theoretically be unlimited but, as a very rough guide, £1000 will buy one quarter-page B&W ad in DJ and Muzik magazine, and will pay for 2000 flyers, and a mailout to about 500 people. That works out at £1 per CD for a batch of 1000.
"After these expenses, the label can expect to receive about £2.86. Out of that they will have to pay for recording and mastering, the latter costing anything up to about £1500. You also have to budget for artwork, unless you do it yourself, and the glass-mastering process, which is the actual master the factory creates to produce copies from. To put it into perspective, if you were signing an artist and they were on just a low-ish royalty rate of 14 percent of dealer price, the royalty would work out at £1.03. Paying for that from £2.86 would make it hard to stay afloat at this level. The other option is a profit share which, in my experience, generally means splitting what's left after the label has paid for all of the above expenses, including artwork, promotion and mastering costs. On a run of 1000 CDs, I wouldn't expect to see much profit — in fact, I wouldn't expect to break even. Managers vary, but in my experience they take about 15 to 30 percent of the band's income before tax (in this example, £1.03 per CD). In my case it used to be 17.5 percent of what I received, excluding VAT.
"Be aware that if you are not VAT registered, you will be paying 60p plus VAT (70p) per copy for manufacturing, £200 plus VAT (£235) for glass mastering, and £1000 plus VAT (£1175) for your adverts and flyers. But you will still only be receiving £5.09 from the distributor. What's more, if you did want to increase the price to earn more, in order for the label to receive an extra £1, the retail price has to go up by £2.80!"
If you'd like to see how that breakdown works on paper, here's how the calculations can be done:
Retail Price £12.99
VAT paid to government by shop £1.93 (£12.99/1.175 = £11.06)
Net to shop: £11.06
Shop marks up 50 percent of
Official Published Price to Dealer (PPD) £11.06/1.50 = £7.37
PPD £7.37
Shop gets eight percent discount £7.37/1.08 = £6.78
Net to distributor £6.78
Distributor takes 25 percent £6.78 × 0.75 = £5.09
Net to label £5.09
(Label pays 17.5 percent VAT to government if it is VAT registered)
8.5 percent of £7.37 PPD to MCPS £7.37 × 0.085 = £0.63
(20 to 30 percent of £0.63 taken by publisher) £5.09 - £0.63 = £4.46
Manufacturing cost of £0.60 £4.46 - £0.60 = £3.86
Promotion cost of £1.00 £3.86 - £1 = £2.86
So the label gets £2.86, less any artist's royalty at 14 percent of PPD (£7.37 × 0.14 = £1.03), and less mastering, artwork, and wages for freelancers.
[quote]krome (11/4/2009)[hr][quote]tommyt (11/3/2009)[hr]I’m not gonna say who out of you two but I get tired of the I know this and that , I know this person, people know me , arrogant attitude . You pissed me off a couple of weeks ago when I accidently put a post in the wrong category and you gave me a rude comment about it. I think you need to be more humble about the things you say.[/quote]
Tommyt I take it you mean this reply:
“For future reference, there is a tunes section where you can post your own projects.”
Doesn’t sound rude to me bro … if anything I think Howie was just redirecting you to a better place to promote your track.
[/quote]
Thank you Krome. Thats exactly what I meant. I didn’t mean for you to take it personal bro. I don’t know how the above comment was rude in any way, shape, or form. I just try to help people out. Perhaps you should have spoken up then about it.
Yes, I know a few people in the business, but whenever there is a question that I dont know, I will ask my friend and I pass the info along. Its nice to hear it first hand right? I dont know how that makes me rude. I have and will continue to help out anyone that needs help.
Oh yeah… Great post Mat1!
[quote]mat1 (11/4/2009)[hr] From that figure, 17.5 percent VAT is paid to the government by the shop, so subtract £1.93 and you have a net of £11.06. …dealer price is £7.37, of which 17.5 percent VAT is paid to government by the distributor… net to the label is £5.09, of which 17.5 percent VAT has to be paid to government…In my case it used to be 17.5 percent of what I received, excluding VAT…if you are not VAT registered, you will be paying 60p plus VAT (70p) per copy for manufacturing, £200 plus VAT (£235) for glass mastering, and £1000 plus VAT (£1175) for your adverts and flyers. But you will still only be receiving £5.09 from the distributor. What’s more, if you did want to increase the price to earn more, in order for the label to receive an extra £1, the retail price has to go up by £2.80!"[/quote]
One of the most important things I just learned from this article is how much the British get SCREWED. I feel bad for you guys. Why I pay 7% tax on my purchases, I will never complain again. Ever!!! I promise! :crazy:
[quote]bangthedj (10/29/2009)[hr]Interesting thread, and some interesting views.
This is a subject I have been looking into quite a lot recently, as it is something I have considered doing myself. Also I am keen to write some articles on it to let people know exactly how to do it.
I might add to the mix the following points, firstly, yes I wouldn’t do it for direct financial gain. Certainly not unless you were planning on doing it full time, probably seeking some sort of investment etc etc.
However it can be something you can make into a serious hobby I feel. It’s important to make a distinction too, between self distribution, and setting up your own label.
Anyone can get a tune on iTunes/Amazon and many many other online stores (apparently even beatport I am told) pretty easily. For say a nominal fee of about £30 (this varies from distributor to distributor). You can do all of this without setting up a label, fire and forget, one off.
A label is a bit more complex as you have to think about branding, marketing, mastering contacts, and a bag load of other stuff, but still, it can all be done easily enough if you are willing to put the effort in.
With regards to Jon’s comment about the increase in dross tunes due to the ease of getting music out there… indeed this is true, but if you have ever been to a second hand record shop and had a flick through the 12" singles from the 70s/80s/90s you will find plenty of dross there too. People have always released rubbish, anyone remember that scene from Scratch with DJ Shadown in the record store basement?.
Also don’t forget, people have been self publishing since punk and beynod in the 70’s where quality control also wasn’t a consideration.
All in… there are many factors at play. I am thinking about setting up a digital label, because I love music, and want to put out music I love, whether it be mine or other peoples. An act of passion. I am willing to chance losing a few bob for the opportunity of giving it ago and possibly loving it.
I’ve got a fair few contacts, and people who have done it themselves too back in the vinyl days etc.
Bottom line, do it if you love it and don’t mind losing some cash for the experience. I most likely will in the new year, so hey I’ll let you know how it all goes anyway! [/quote]
You know this is what the dance music scene was like years ago… people within this industry never promoted/dj or made music with an idea they would make a shed load of money they didn’t even do it for the fame they did it because they just loved it… now the scene is inundated with idiots that think they are going to be famous or rich, its so hard to weed out the gems because of all the rubbish and wannabe’s that are prepared to tread on whoever’s toes to be rich and famous!
This is why there is so much rubbish music to sift through if you are a dj now, 10 or more years ago the only people making tracks (including dance tracks) had talent - this is because they were musicians, bands etc. How many Classic tracks would you say have been released this year that will stand the test of time that tracks like Alison Limerick - Where love lives or massive attack - Unfinished Sympathy have.
It just goes to show how untalented and money hungry people have got by the number of these classics have been remixed in recent years, just so as to make money and to get there faces in the right places.
DO IT FOR THE LOVE PEEPS, it makes for better music - OR JUST DON’T BOTHER!!!
:rolleyes:
[quote]seandevoy (11/2/2009)[hr][quote]howiegroove (10/29/2009)[hr]He said that just for one top 10 Beatport chart, you can make 10k-30k right off rip. [/quote]
I’m pretty sure that isn’t accurate, certainly not for some of the more niche catergories where a few hundred sales can get you into the top 10. I read an article about this somewhere else and the 10-30K seems a bit much even for the bigger categories (house/minimal etc).
Was it just your mate coming off with these figures or does he have something to back it up? I mean, how does he know how much Wolfgang is making from Beatport so that he can turn down 5K remix requests?[/quote]
i agree those figures do not match up
[quote]lukeyb79 (11/4/2009)[hr][quote]seandevoy (11/2/2009)[hr][quote]howiegroove (10/29/2009)[hr]He said that just for one top 10 Beatport chart, you can make 10k-30k right off rip. [/quote]
I’m pretty sure that isn’t accurate, certainly not for some of the more niche catergories where a few hundred sales can get you into the top 10. I read an article about this somewhere else and the 10-30K seems a bit much even for the bigger categories (house/minimal etc).
Was it just your mate coming off with these figures or does he have something to back it up? I mean, how does he know how much Wolfgang is making from Beatport so that he can turn down 5K remix requests?[/quote]
i agree those figures do not match up[/quote]
What dont they match up with?
You don’t believe that a producer can make $10,000USD on a top 10 beatport track? I dont see how that is impossible if the artist sells 10k singles.
If you take the “fact” that Deadmau5 sold 30000 copies of “not exactly” and its not the highest ever selling track on Beatport
30000 * 1.75 = £52500 or $86948 - 50%= £25950 or $42980
i think you’ll find that $10000 or £6038 per track is not that hard to believe for some one hitting the top 10
fair enough howie
a lot of people are saying that howard and i are wrong but no one is saying why we are wrong. if you give me a reason then i am happy to STFU. most of the big artist that are hitting the top ten have their own labels so at most they will be getting stung the 50% from beat port, however i don’t “think” that a top artist would get the same % charge from beatport as a relatively unknown artist after all the are pulling in major money for these companies so i would guess that what they get charged would be closer to 25%. i know that they will still have to pay taxes on what they earn but having been self employed most of my adult life i know that what you pay in taxes can also be claimed back else where, providing you have a good accountant.
I agree with you guys. It’s seems very likely that the very top 10 on Beatport can generate these types of sales. I don’t think it’s far fetched at all. someone should find out the traffic or hits that beatport recieves on a average day. Then you could probably guess at to what their sales could be.
[quote]tommyt (11/4/2009)[hr]fair enough howie[/quote]
Am I still an asshole, or did you take it the wrong way? I’m confused. Am I still arrogant or conceited?