Subbass & Bass

hey all,



i m wondering how you do your bass and especially subbass? do you layer them, use mostly sidechain, using swing, little bit delay, 16th notes …?

i think its one of the hardest part , to have the bassline fit nicely in the track.



here are to nice videos on youtube also about sidechain techniques…:



Sub & sidechaining techniques for Ableton Live 8 part 1- key and timing - YouTube

Sub & side-chaining techniques for Ableton Live 8 part 2- Layered and filter side chaining - YouTube





greetings



cortiorgan

Hey cortigan, what i do is find a nice sub sound stick an eq on it low pass filter it   at around 60 -70hz on it take a second synth  this is for your mid sound  put  an eq on it and create a hp filter on it at around 130 hz also low pass that sort of creating a band pass filter taking off the high end at around 250 hz then route to a seperate audio track and compress, also if you like you could stick a side chain on your sub synth … hope this helps man:)

sub notes any where below 60hz ish

bass 60 - 250hz

hey cortiorgan, first let me tell you that Egg is 100% right. he is right on. Here is my interpretation for you…



Making your kick and your bass sit together is probably the hardest thing that you will come across when making dance music. Its not easy to say the least. It takes alot of practice and in many times, some luck. When you make your music, make the bass and kick hand in hand. If you have a deep subby kick, dont use a deep subby bass. If you need to, make sure to side chain the bass to the kick. So you have a subby bass, try to pick a non subby kick. Or if your kick is subby, pick a higher bassline. You can even make a bass, and eq the main part of the kick out of the bass so that they sit better together. Lots of way to go about it, but the best way is to just do it and practice.

I have to add, that any way you slice it, you will probably run into issues. I know I still do and I’m sure Egg does too. Either way, we are all here to help each other out and walk you through it.

In fact its really rare that i dont run into problems lol:)

actually the problem is that i never know how loud i should make

the subbass layer, because mostly you get to hear i really good in a club.

i have the krk rokit 8 monitors perhaps i should get some bass woofer to handle better with that :wink:



greets


Mate i get that ALL the time, bass level sounds fine when played through Ableton Live, but once bounced down it sounds too loud. Really gets up my nose.

[quote]cortiorgan (07/02/2010)[hr]actually the problem is that i never know how loud i should make

the subbass layer, because mostly you get to hear i really good in a club.

i have the krk rokit 8 monitors perhaps i should get some bass woofer to handle better with that :wink:



greets



[/quote]



Depends on the track you’re making. Some people have their bass pretty subtle and let the kick do the main part of the work, other genres like filthy electro can really let the bass lead, so in that case it’s louder in the mix.



Levels wise, do what feels right, if it sounds good, then it probably is good.

Just remember to check on various systems ie: home hi-fi, car, ipod, etc… because your studio speakers can be deceptive sometimes.

do you have some special notes you like to take for some bassnotes!

there are some people that actually does…

i think sander van doorn mentioned in one of his tutorials, that G makes

it the best for him, mostly…





greets

Hey buddy, here is whats up. When you are making your track, the bass and kick are the ones you need to watch out for. The only speakers that you will really be able to tell about your sub bass is through club speakers. You really dont hear sub bass, you just feel it. So your best bet is to roll off anything below 50 or 60 hz (depending on your flavor and I roll off at 60 hz). If you dont do this, energy can be wasted for everything else that is playing through the speakers. I would break out your trusty spectrum analyzer so that you can actually see the waveforms and that you can make sure that frequencies are not crashing with one another. Best of luck bro!

hear a sub ??? shouldn’t you feel it more than you hear it?, i was always led to believe that you should only be able a little hum but feel the pressure and that pushing or forcing a sub sound through the wrong sound system will damage the cones.



sure i read something like that in future music mag.





i could be a million miles off, it’s along time since i read the mag and i tend to avoid sub bass if i can.

[quote]jon_fisher (07/02/2010)[hr]hear a sub ??? shouldn’t you feel it more than you hear it?, i was always led to believe that you should only be able a little hum but feel the pressure and that pushing or forcing a sub sound through the wrong sound system will damage the cones.



sure i read something like that in future music mag.





i could be a million miles off, it’s along time since i read the mag and i tend to avoid sub bass if i can.[/quote]

i mean, of course we (human beings;) ) can t hear stuff lower than 40 hz or sth. like that.

thankfully, there is also stapediuis reflex (from your middle ear muscles) which prevent you mostly from damage . i guess especially bass damages your tympanic membrane because its better “transmitted”(btw. bends…)

anyways my questions was more in general, how you guys handle with your bass, i guess i ll try to look more often at the spectrum analyzer…



thanks for your help!



greets

[quote]cortiorgan (07/02/2010)[hr][quote]jon_fisher (07/02/2010)[hr]hear a sub ??? shouldn’t you feel it more than you hear it?, i was always led to believe that you should only be able a little hum but feel the pressure and that pushing or forcing a sub sound through the wrong sound system will damage the cones.



sure i read something like that in future music mag.





i could be a million miles off, it’s along time since i read the mag and i tend to avoid sub bass if i can.[/quote]

i mean, of course we (human beings;) ) can t hear stuff lower than 40 hz or sth. like that.

thankfully, there is also stapediuis reflex (from your middle ear muscles) which prevent you mostly from damage . i guess especially bass damages your tympanic membrane because its better “transmitted”(btw. bends…)

anyways my questions was more in general, how you guys handle with your bass, i guess i ll try to look more often at the spectrum analyzer…



thanks for your help!



greets[/quote]



sure we can hear it lol but on most systems (Home Monitoring) It will sound like a little hum/buzz what ever you wanna call it because most monitors won’t produce frequencies below say 50hz very well and on a sub Monitor you feel it more than you hear it. usually though with such low frequencies that the monitors can’t produce correctly, people will start to turn up the monitors in hope of hearing the sub bass more clearly and end up damaging the cones. so like you say its best to work with a frequency Analyzer.



as for how i handle my bass? usually very badly lol


also while we are on the subject of bass can someone do a tutorial on how to get that kick bass from downpipe, that s@it is so well glues together



]

yeah yeah. thats why i said you can feel sub bass. you gotta break out the spectral analyzer for it. Playing it on home speakers, car speakers, ipod, etc, means absolutely nothing. The only way you can really hear it is on club speakers. Even then you dont hear it as much as you feel it. Get it right and it can take a clubs breath away!


offtopic on;

definetly you would not really hear frequencies below 20 Hz.
Just looked up in my medical books ;)
and by the way ... corti organ is by the way the organ , which especially
transmits bass frequencies ;)

offtopic off

:)

greets

I thought it was below 30hz that you can’t hear. That’s why it’s recommended in your mastering chain to roll of frequencies below 30hz as it can muddy up the track / mess with your compressor??

It varies Roben from person to person , from the top, bottom and anything in between.

well according to wiki :smiley:



[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hearing_range[/url]