dub techno
[quote]chris831 (1/14/2010)[hr][quote]djfreak303 (1/14/2010)[hr]LoL, please, who are you?!!! you seem to be funy ;]
And if you looked at the other posts, you would see people asking for Jeff Mills’ techno, or Adam Beyer, … so you shouldn’t say I am the only one, that’s stupid…
What you say is the perfect example of what make all the techno lovers angry as hell…
I work in techno, and travelled for it for years… I know (and work with) some world famous techno producers, and I also read a hell lot of things, and let me tell you that what you say just get a HELL LOT of producers mad…
this is NOT techno, that’s not MY OPINION, that’s a FACT
(ask people like Ben Sims (one of the best techno dj / producer ever) or Derrick May (one of the detroit guys who CREATED the techno movement in 1986, you should read some things about him, would help you for sure… Carl Craig would be NOONE without him…)
This kind of words just get all the techno lovers MAD as hell…
don’t ask for techno if u have no clue of what it is… that’s the point .[/quote]
I may be ‘funny’ but i think your the joke.First off you ask who am i?,did i ever try to set myself up as some kind of all knowing authority figure on all things techno?,i have however listened to variances of techno for about the last 15 yrs so i obviously have an opinion of what it is,more importantly though i am aware my views are just my own and therefore i would never do something as ridiculous as claiming i can decide all that is and isn’t techno for the rest of the people on the site.All i said was your stating subjective opinion as fact and your still doing it.You are the one that keeps going on about how you’ve been doing this for years and now your trying to gain some authority/credibility by saying you work with world famous techno producers,as if even that gives you some right to decide what is and isn’t correct,so a much better question is who are you then?.Why not post up links to the tracks you’ve been making all these years since you act like you know exactly what is and isn’t right i’m sure we can all learn something.
You once again seem to have a massive problem differentiating fact from opinion so i’ll explain it to you one last time,when you make statements like ‘all techno lovers’ think this or that you are once again stating an opinion which is a projection of your own bias and self interest,this is not scientific fact,go look up what a fact means in the dictionary and then come back and try to use the term properly.Also when saying things like ben sims is one of the best techno producers ever this is again your opinion,i personally don’t think he is that great so if he talks about a certain type of techno being the most real/true on his facebook page or whatever eg the stuff he makes and personally likes that doesn’t really make other versions and visions of techno ben sims dosen’t count cease to exist or become irrelevant.
I have actually read many things about and interviews with Derrick May over the years and yes in many of them he has a go at lots of different techno producers/styles(usually ones he feels aren’t showing enough of a lineage to his own ideas of detroit outwards)Derrick is always going to be a legend for where/when he came and therefore what he did for techno but that was a long time ago and again when he says he likes or dislikes something that is only an OPINION,what is their about this concept you don’t understand?.So you’ve picked two people who might justify some throwback linear narrative to a certain type of techno well done! this proves nothing about the so called facts you state in regards to your own personal preference being best.Even if it was so lets just pretend you were right and all the stuff you like is real techno and everyone else in this thread you say doesn’t understand techno is wrong,it still doesn’t matter!.This is because this site is a democracy and when people see the word techno they don’t all think what you think they have different ideas and likes and dislikes so you telling them their views aren’t valid is wrong and that’s the only reason i said i didn’t agree with you because you were forcing your opinion and definition of techno on everyone else under the guise that you understand it all more somehow.I disagree with you on this and i don’t trust you on it as you said to do earlier in the thread because i don’t think your definition of one fairly narrow element of all modern techno which seems to have a somewhat old school sound type bias is the only correct/true form based on the stuff you’ve posted and what you’ve said,a lot of people have a lot of different ideas on what good techno is you seem to think though your ideas are more important than the rest.
For the record though I like jeff mills,rob hood,adam beyer(old and new)my main point was why not stop telling people what is and isn’t techno according to your own rules as you really have no right or authority to do this!!!,and i also corrected you on a FACTUAL error of saying techno had to be around 140bpm or at least 135bpm plus as many modern techno productions are not.Although maybe in your own crazy world their still not proper techno tracks anyway so maybe you should e-mail beatport or mixmag/dj mag etc and tons of websites and tell them their putting non techno tracks in the techno section according to you and see how far you get.
In the modern dance scene cross pollination is rife and it is getting harder and harder to nail down an exact one true definition of any genre especially one as far reaching as techno,fair enough if people were posting drum and bass tracks or something that would be pushing it but these days in a lot of ways one mans tech house is anothers techno.Your totally within your right as i and everyone is to have an opinion about what makes techno but to just flat out tell people their wrong as their definition of techno and yours don’t match is not your place to do on the site.If it was 1998 it might be easier to nail down exactly what techno is/was but its not so people will all have different ideas that will tend to conflict with your own opinions,the problem is you seem to be under the delusion your opinion is actually fact or at least better than everyone elses.So if this tutorial ever gets made then everyone(including those you say don’t know real techno)will as a group have to decide what we all feel it is and want and the majority will get that.Certainly nobody with any sense is going to drop what they personally like/think/want from a techno tutorial because theirs one guy on a forum who has decided he has worked it all out and therefore states yes or no this is and isn’t right.Again who are you? or who do you think you are?,your just one person with an opinion as am i as is everyone else who think techno is something you don’t.
Anyway I don’t see the point in carrying this conversation on as i’ve wasted enough time already but i have in this message taken the time to try to explain clearly what i meant to you so i hope thats the end of it,but if you do respond to get the last word or whatever don’t expect a reply.My closing thoughts are in my opinion your coming across fairly narrow minded and needlessly pretentious, also possibly slightly delusional in your sense of self too(i’ll await links to these real techno tracks you’ve been producing and released with further explanation on your dealings with FAMOUS PRODUCERS,but even if thats all true it still proves nothing in this discussion).No matter who you think you are,you’ve been a member of this site for like a month and i think a lot of what you’ve recently been saying is disrespectful to the rest of the people who pay their money too and have equal say on this if you like it or not,so you can’t just tell them what they want in a techno htsl shouldn’t be allowed as it isn’t techno to you and this of course gets ever more ridiculous when you try and claim your taste is somehow factual/better. Since you don’t seem to have a decent grasp of the english language ether maybe you should just keep some of these opinions to yourself especially since here you seem to only disagree with nearly everyone posting on the thread or at least why not just state your opinions as that, another voice to the discussion as opposed to telling people their wrong about stuff that is fairly impossible to be right and wrong about,apart from in your own mind of course.
[/quote]
Techno = technology based music … its not about the bpm its about what you do with the …er … technology .
thats the longest post ive ever seen
[quote]tommyt (1/18/2010)[hr]thats the longest post ive ever seen[/quote]
yeah, man i like it , chris 831 for next prime minister lol:)
obviously someone hit a nerve
I’m not impressed. When typing in my own language (french), i can do even longer posts ! :hehe:
Anyway, i won’t vote because I’m not sure which option fits the best to my wish…
My favourite “techno” artists are :
- Speedy J (especially the “Collabs” serie… he worked with Adam Bayer, Chris Liebing, Literon, … to create those tracks).
- Richie Hawtin (especially the tracks mixed for the first Decks, FX and 909… the one before the “Closer to the Edit” which is a lot more minimal imho).
- Adam Bayer.
- Umek.
- Surgeon.
I know those artists don’t do the same “techno” style but I would be very pleased to learn how to create anything within those styles.
Also… I would be very interested in learning “hard techno” as one can listen to with the sets and the tracks from DJ Rush and Pet Duo… i really wonder how they proceed to make them sound so… agressive…
- I am a “new member” on this forum because i created a second account to don’t be seen by people like you… Does it matter? Has it anything to do with my opinion and my knowledge?
- I’ve been watching handball for 10 years, In my opinin it’s soccer even if it’s played with the hands! That’s as senseless as what you’re saying.
Electronic music is evoluting, techno too but it belongs TECHNO; which minimal, downtempo and so on are NOT : they are other styles, that’s the point …
People like Hawtin doesn’t call what he does “techno” anymore, because it’s minimal…
There is a HUGE difference between opinon and FACTS; if the techno founders, pioneers, fathers or masters (which I am not) say it’s not techno; what’s your right to say it is? I wasn’t speaking about my own opinion, I was just quoting things said by the people who keep the techno scene alive…
But yes, let’s make a tech-house or minimal-tech tutorial, as 90% of the tutorials available online, that’s gonna be soooo helpful!
Bring back the 90’s when there was very little music pigeon holing and a rave could consist of all different sounds of music and people didn’t care, because it was just music and it had a good beat, it sounded good and you could dance to it.
Just dance, Just enjoy, Keep smiling
bunch of white on white crime in this topic!
Hard Techno, because it was never covered here a style like that!!
Names like: Dj Rush, PetDUO, Dj Lukas, Svetec, Gonçalo M, Boris S, Sven Wittekind, Lexis, A.Paul, …etc…
[quote]djfreak303 (1/19/2010)[hr]1. I am a “new member” on this forum because i created a second account to don’t be seen by people like you… [quote]
hehehhe he is so underground that he even have a 2 accounts to insult people tastes .
you better chill out budd if u dont want another Long Comment hehehe
Despite his agressive way of talking and forcing his own ideas, i have to say i agree with him…
Handball is handball… Soccer is soccer… Rock is rock… And heavy metal is not rock even if both uses a guitar and a distortion…
My english is not very good so i can’t do a 10 pages post to explain what i understood from the discussion between them… but i can see where the misunderstand is :
- one is just saying “techno” is not “dub” / “minimal” / “deep house” / “electro” and is a bit agressive when talking.
- one don’t like this, think it’s a lack of respect to force his own idea and explain that if the majority thinks “it’s techno”, then it’s techno…
I can’t go with this last idea. It’s very democratic… but it’s not true in my humble opinion. The problem in electronic music is that there are so many styles and sub-styles that everybody has his own opinion about the style of a given track. For years, i listened to some kind of electronic music, thinking it was techno and recently, a friend told me it sounded more electro than techno… :hehe:
Anyway, the real problem here is the definition of techno. What is yours ? What is a pure “techno” track for you ? Something released under the “Underground Resistance” label ? Maybe the “Axis” label ? What about those “techno” tracks released by “Tresor” ? Aren’t they all techno tracks despite the difference in the sound between them ? If one is more “techno” than the other, please explain me why… i would really like to learn that ! :w00t:
Oh yeah… and if you can explain me the difference between “hard techno” and “schranz”, i would be thankful. For me, schranz is hard techno… but it looks like people do not agree and personally, i can’t hear the difference between them !
[quote]tbtek (1/19/2010)[hr]Hard Techno, because it was never covered here a style like that!!
Names like: Dj Rush, PetDUO, Dj Lukas, Svetec, Gonçalo M, Boris S, Sven Wittekind, Lexis, A.Paul, …etc…
;)[/quote]
Goncalo M & A. Paul are mostly techno producers mate…
To alinenunez > I didn’t insult anyone, and i didn’t say my tastes were better than yours… I respect any kind of music, I prefere a metal lover than a guy with no music knowledge who only listen to music at radio…
And if I created a second account, that’s mostly because I wanted to create a new one before buying features, what I did… But thank you for speaking instead of me ;p
To mike dessler > Sorry if i sounded agressive, that wasn’t my goal… I was just a bit upset/bored by these things about techno… I hear the same **** everyday with I Love Techno coming (there are no realy techno in i love techno anymore, and thousands of people are whining about it)
You’re right UR’s techno (detroit) or Tresor techno (german) were both techno, with different substyles, but the essence was here!
That was not minimal at all… (for me, what Robert Hood made is more techno than minimal, and this kind of minimal-tech can be seen as a techno subgenre)
Techno evoluted, and some substyles created new main-styles…
Axis was, of course, a pure techno label (most of the best jeff mills’s productions were released there) … The leading labels in the current techno scene are Roots, Patterns, Adult, Naked Lunch, Audio Assault, Planet Rythm, … but there are a lot of new vinyl labels that will start in 2010, and i speak about REAL techno ;D
(hundreds of digital labels too)
If you want to get the difference between schranz and hardtechno, the frontier isn’t that big…
But people like Space DJ’z play hardtechno (faster & harder techno) and doesn’t play schranz (which would be the hardest & fastest side of hardtechno)
I am sorry for the guys who felt agressed by me, that was not my goal and will never be… Techno is a BIG part of my life, and there are some things I can’t accept… And the guys who love minimal as much as i love techno, want their style to be called “minimal” and not any kind “techno subgenre” , trust me…
ok djfreak and anyone else who is wasting time reading this mess of a thread, the point i was making was clearly not that any totally abstract and unrelated genre could be considered techno so taking the argument to ridiculous extremes talking about handball = football is nonsense.I did say obviously something that has no real relation to techno eg broken beat styles wouldn’t generally be up for contention because its hard to believe anybody listens to drum and bass for example and actually calls it techno or is it ever really described as such online on download and review sites(although if everyone suddenly decided it was then i couldn’t argue with majority rule,but in reality thats very unlikely to happen)
HOWEVER in this day and age,theirs lots of people who do call/class certain styles of four on the floor perhaps that are fairly stripped(comparatively)driving and percussive for example techno,it isn’t the same techno as what was called that back in 95 and i think it is fair comment to say well then its still not techno to me its actually tech house or minimal thats fine to have that opinion however its not fine to force that opinon on others as even if you were technically correct(and for the record again this is all rather subjective isn’t it)that means the people voting would be doing so under a false assumption anyway and probably would not want someone elses version of techno even if they were personally convinced it was real/true,the best or whatever.
Now again i highly doubt people are going to be thinking happy hardcore artists are techno but their does get some confusion/debate/discussion around similar sounding subgenres blending together,like the previously mentioned tech house and minimal i mean go look at beatport djfreak i’m sure theirs tons of artists under the techno genre you feel shouldn’t be their as they don’t seem to fit your model/idea of what techno is,certainly in relation to the past through now.
So no matter how hard one person pretends their is,their is no exact definiton of techno at least these days,if you don’t believe that again go look up all the online review/download sites,read magazines and see all the things now called techno,in fact djfreak this seems to be one of your main points of annoyance that people are in your eyes wrongly calling stuff techno when it isn’t.
Thats pretty much my point,people will naturally have different ideas on what is techno.So when someone says they want a techno htsl they might be coming at it from a totally different angle to someone else.Therefore the only fair thing to do is see what the group together class as techno and go with what most feel is correct and wanted,certainly not the ideas of one random person who has convinced himself that he gets it and understands more somehow,because even if you could someone prove that then thats still not what people might have wanted or meant when they voted so thats not fair as each person pays their money like everyone else,clearly the only thing that is fair is majority rule in reference to definiton and the specifics.
mate, I get your point… But a huge majority of the producers i speak with (or those I have in my myspace/facebook page (doesn’t mean I know them)) disagree with beatport’s classification ^^ Everyday I read things about that…
I mean that’s pointless to ask for a techno tutorial if you are looking for minimal-tech or tech-house ^^ (as all those tutorial are already on this website… If you are looking for different subgenres of tech-house or minimal, juste try to be creative, the tutorials already tell it all about the technical points)
If 20 world famous profesionnal gastronomes tell you a meal is fish, and then 2000 neophyte tell you it’s rat , who says the truth? I would rather believe the pro’s ;D
(my metaphors are massive, I know :D)
[quote]djfreak303 (1/20/2010)[hr]
Goncalo M & A. Paul are mostly techno producers mate…
[/quote]
Yes, they are more funky/tribal techno…
I also linten to techno/hard techno for more than 11 years
One name I simply love: Huma-Noyd live
Come on people, vote on hard techno
man im gutted ive come in late to this topic!
the easiest way for me to describe what i want to see is dave clarke and jeff mills. they are just techno!
and please no minimal!
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ID SAY THIS WAS TECHNO
Hello i would like a gabber or hardcore tutorial like this :
- Ophidian
- Hamunaptra
- The Prophet
- Endymion
- Mindustries
Thanks !
[quote]djfreak303 (1/20/2010)[hr]mate, I get your point… But a huge majority of the producers i speak with (or those I have in my myspace/facebook page (doesn’t mean I know them)) disagree with beatport’s classification ^^ Everyday I read things about that…
I mean that’s pointless to ask for a techno tutorial if you are looking for minimal-tech or tech-house ^^ (as all those tutorial are already on this website… If you are looking for different subgenres of tech-house or minimal, juste try to be creative, the tutorials already tell it all about the technical points)
If 20 world famous profesionnal gastronomes tell you a meal is fish, and then 2000 neophyte tell you it’s rat , who says the truth? I would rather believe the pro’s ;D
(my metaphors are massive, I know :D)[/quote]
I do see what your saying,for the record i don’t want a so called more minimal or tech house tutorial ether,my point was peoples definitions of what techno is can vary a lot these days so even if the majority of people on the site ‘got it wrong’ in our opinion and picked something we wouldn’t class as techno i dunno if it’s fair to say that vote/opinion dosen’t count,as thats still what they wanted(when they thought of techno)more problematically to them it actually isn’t minimal or whatever as they understand it to be techno,which is where the confusion, debate and different opinions start.
I know a lot of producers do disagree with beatports classifications thats why i brought it up,to say obviously your going to get people that go on their and think all things under the techno banner are that,even if someone else would say some of the tracks are more electro or minimal or whatever.
Anyway i’m going to end my participation in this thread now as i think its just dragging on,hopefully if we ever do get a techno htsl it can please the majority of people as well as fitting in with most peoples ideas of techno overall,so maybe the fairest way is just everyone suggest producers/styles they like etc and then the whole site votes on their favorite overall from that.
I still think it would be great if this htsl does happen to get at least one video where some alternatives and different types of techno are covered or just mentioned even briefly(since techno is such a massive topic generally)eg the sonic team could say if you want a more minimal rob hood style of techno do this or a harder and darker surgeon/regis style do that then make a few basic suggestions anyway,obviously this still wouldn’t be perfect for those who preferred one thing mainly but at least perhaps then most peoples ideas of techno would at least be mentioned briefly and they’d get an idea of what to do and where to start going forward.