can you only have 12 return tracks in ableton? 
yeah you can route audio to an audio track but i want everything nice and neat on my returns!
how the heck do you use that many!
Iāve always felt like less is more.
What about grouping stuff?
PIty you cannot group groups.
its a new thing for me to caine the return tracks 
more is more:D
is it a cpu thing or what?
Cpu wouldnāt really be the issue unless you put a sh*t ton of effects on each return track
I only ever use 6 at the most
Usually only 4 Slends though 
_____________________________
Yeahā¦ 12 sends - Fk
http://www.ableton.com/pages/live_8/comparison_chart/live_intro
like why do you think you need more?
what i mean is what are you using your Aux channels for?
I wouldnt think you need that many
I usually have like 4-6 sends MAX. 2 verbs. 2 compressors. maby 1 or 2 distortion/FX.
On a side noteā¦
You can group groups in Abletonā¦ if you can find a way to set it up correctly.
A lot of times I have a ton of synths & samples in samplers that cause 60+ channels in a project.
What Iāve been doing is getting my samples + synths tuned as I want themā¦ and then I drop them into a DRUM RACK. This way I can have 30 synths all collapsible under a group. Itās also helped with the creative process for complextro stuff. 
Soā¦ You kinda āgroupā groups by making Drumracks?
Is that right UV?
for you synths why would you not just use groups?
or a live rack why the drum rack
[quote]michaellpenman (24/10/2011)[hr]like why do you think you need more?
what i mean is what are you using your Aux channels for?
I wouldnt think you need that many
[/quote]
Tbh itās more experimentation than anything. The idea is to get depth to individual sounds and itās worked to be fair.
I using my sends for reverbs, side eq, saturator, ring mod, auto pan/filter. whatever really
[quote]ICN (26/10/2011)[hr]Soā¦ You kinda āgroupā groups by making Drumracks?
Is that right UV? [/quote]
Yeah man. Its a way of getting around it and making a project more organized.
Say Iām making a complextro track.
And I have 30+ samples/synths Iām using. (This is lowā¦ we usually have 70+)
And another 10-20 synths that are main leads/pads/basses/etcā¦ plus your drumsā¦
Well those 30 channels in a project is a nightmare to work around.
Itās also a pain to mix because there are so many channels with constant scrolling.
Your constantly going back & forth between channels, and zooming into 8th notes.
Well I figured a better way to get around this was too use a drum rack.
Iāll take those 30+ samples/synths and drop them into drum rack.
You can still EQ, compress and do FX individually for all the samples/sounds.
AND you can do an overall compression/eq for the drum rack. (standard stuff)
BUT now you can drop that drum rack into a group. Because ableton allows that.
So technically you could have multiple drum racks in the same group.
ieā¦ groups within groups.
The best part to meā¦ is it makes composing a super complex riff much easier. Instead of 30 samplers/synths with 30 different channels and 30 different midi clips. Now they are all combined into 1 drum rack, on 1 channel with 1 midi clip. You can still see all the individual synths in the drum rack if you need toā¦ But its all condensed into 1 channel.
Here is the bad part. You donāt get the whole scale to work with in midi. Drum rack sets a macro for each synth/sample to a particular key on the roll. Drum rack does not change the sample sound based on what key you put it on, but it limits you to 1 synth per note on the piano rollā¦ SOOOo the way around this is to basically know your music theory, know what your creating and proper organization. Label your sh*t. When I create sounds, I tune them to the note/key that I want them in. Same with samples. A little transpose and your good to go. Just gotta know what your doing.
Technically you could do the same thing with instrument rackā¦ except you would have to do the midi macros for individual synths to what key you want them on. Otherwise all your synths are playing at the same time when you hit a key. So yes you can do what Iām talking about with instrument rackā¦ but why add the extra step to get it to work the same way as drum rack already works?
[quote]UnitedVision (26/10/2011)[hr][quote]ICN (26/10/2011)[hr]Soā¦ You kinda āgroupā groups by making Drumracks?
Is that right UV? [/quote]
Yeah man. Its a way of getting around it and making a project more organized.
Say Iām making a complextro track.
And I have 30+ samples/synths Iām using. (This is lowā¦ we usually have 70+)
And another 10-20 synths that are main leads/pads/basses/etcā¦ plus your drumsā¦
Well those 30 channels in a project is a nightmare to work around.
Itās also a pain to mix because there are so many channels with constant scrolling.
Your constantly going back & forth between channels, and zooming into 8th notes.
Well I figured a better way to get around this was too use a drum rack.
Iāll take those 30+ samples/synths and drop them into drum rack.
You can still EQ, compress and do FX individually for all the samples/sounds.
AND you can do an overall compression/eq for the drum rack. (standard stuff)
BUT now you can drop that drum rack into a group. Because ableton allows that.
So technically you could have multiple drum racks in the same group.
ieā¦ groups within groups.
The best part to meā¦ is it makes composing a super complex riff much easier. Instead of 30 samplers/synths with 30 different channels and 30 different midi clips. Now they are all combined into 1 drum rack, on 1 channel with 1 midi clip. You can still see all the individual synths in the drum rack if you need toā¦ But its all condensed into 1 channel.
Here is the bad part. You donāt get the whole scale to work with in midi. Drum rack sets a macro for each synth/sample to a particular key on the roll. Drum rack does not change the sample sound based on what key you put it on, but it limits you to 1 synth per note on the piano rollā¦ SOOOo the way around this is to basically know your music theory, know what your creating and proper organization. Label your sh*t. When I create sounds, I tune them to the note/key that I want them in. Same with samples. A little transpose and your good to go. Just gotta know what your doing.
Technically you could do the same thing with instrument rackā¦ except you would have to do the midi macros for individual synths to what key you want them on. Otherwise all your synths are playing at the same time when you hit a key. So yes you can do what Iām talking about with instrument rackā¦ but why add the extra step to get it to work the same way as drum rack already works?
[/quote]
with instruments racks you can key different synths to a velocity with overlaping points
[quote]michaellpenman (26/10/2011)
with instruments racks you can key different synths to a velocity with overlaping points[/quote]
thats cool. never done thatā¦
Problem with that is then you have to set the velocity for each note in the channel.
Thats a pain that would take too much time during my composing process.
And how would that effect the velocity of notes that you DO want to change?
my sounds are created before they go into any rack. they already sound like i want them 2.
This is purely about making it easier to manage 30+ synths.
And againā¦ itās a pain going through and setting all those macros for 70+ inst in IR.
For me drum rack works perfectly in ableton for the kind of music that I make.
and on that noteā¦ 1500th post! :hehe::w00t:;):P:D:)
[quote]UnitedVision (26/10/2011)[hr][quote]michaellpenman (26/10/2011)
with instruments racks you can key different synths to a velocity with overlaping points[/quote]
thats cool. never done thatā¦
Problem with that is then you have to set the velocity for each note.
Thats a pain that would take too much time during my composing process.
And how would that effect the velocity of notes that you DO want to change?
my sounds are created before they go into any rack. they already sound like i want them 2.
This is purely about making it easier to manage 30+ synths.
And againā¦ itās a pain going through and setting all those macros for 70+ inst in IR.
For me drum rack works perfectly in ableton for the kind of music that I make.
and on that noteā¦ 1500th post! :hehe::w00t:;):P:D:)
[/quote]
nah you set the velocity via the synth in the main rack window, it means depending how hard you hit the key which synth you play
1 last thing though.
If you had a bunch of synths + samples that you wanted to play midi with.
THATS when I use instrument rack. Like you have 20 slap bass samples
THEN Iād throw them into an instrument rack, map them all to midi.
Basically creating your own slap bass synth by doing that.
But it works because your just using 20 similar slap bass samples.
**** goes out the window when your talking about wobbles, synth hits & weird atmos stuff.
[quote]michaellpenman (26/10/2011)[hr][quote]UnitedVision (26/10/2011)[hr][quote]michaellpenman (26/10/2011)
with instruments racks you can key different synths to a velocity with overlaping points[/quote]
thats cool. never done thatā¦
Problem with that is then you have to set the velocity for each note.
Thats a pain that would take too much time during my composing process.
And how would that effect the velocity of notes that you DO want to change?
my sounds are created before they go into any rack. they already sound like i want them 2.
This is purely about making it easier to manage 30+ synths.
And againā¦ itās a pain going through and setting all those macros for 70+ inst in IR.
For me drum rack works perfectly in ableton for the kind of music that I make.
and on that noteā¦ 1500th post! :hehe::w00t:;):P:D:)
[/quote]
nah you set the velocity via the synth in the main rack window, it means depending how hard you hit the key which synth you play[/quote]
I get what your sayingā¦ but maby you write music differently then I do.
When I use my drum rack, Iām not playing anything. Iām just clicking in notes.
So that means if I did it your wayā¦
Iād have to click in the note & adjust the velocity, to get the sound that i wanted.
Just making more work for myselfā¦ ya know what I mean?
Iām trying to make it simpler!
I can understand if you just had like a piano, a saw and a square. certain velocities would trigger certain synths in the instrument rack. but thatās not what im doin! But if I wanted to go crazy with it to your point. You could do an instrument rack and layer velocities with synths. That would be wild! probably taking a bit longer then Iād likeā¦ but I get what your saying.
[quote]UnitedVision (26/10/2011)[hr]1 last thing though.
If you had a bunch of synths + samples that you wanted to play midi with.
THATS when I use instrument rack. Like you have 20 slap bass samples
THEN Iād throw them into an instrument rack, map them all to midi.
Basically creating your own slap bass synth by doing that.
But it works because your just using 20 similar slap bass samples.
**** goes out the window when your talking about wobbles, synth hits & weird atmos stuff.
[/quote]
sorry you have totally mis understood me.
So as you can see from my image i have 2 different analog synths loading into a rack
i have set one to a velocity 1-57 and the other to 58-127
so when i play soft the fist synth plays when i play hard the second synth plays
this is a simplied method which can be made very complex.
[quote]michaellpenman (26/10/2011)[hr][quote]UnitedVision (26/10/2011)[hr]1 last thing though.
If you had a bunch of synths + samples that you wanted to play midi with.
THATS when I use instrument rack. Like you have 20 slap bass samples
THEN Iād throw them into an instrument rack, map them all to midi.
Basically creating your own slap bass synth by doing that.
But it works because your just using 20 similar slap bass samples.
**** goes out the window when your talking about wobbles, synth hits & weird atmos stuff.
[/quote]
sorry you have totally mis understood me.
So as you can see from my image i have 2 different analog synths loading into a rack
i have set one to a velocity 1-57 and the other to 58-127
so when i play soft the fist synth plays when i play hard the second synth plays
this is a simplied method which can be made very complex.[/quote]
No I understand exactly what your talking about. See my post above your last post.
I get what your saying. Except, that when i write musicā¦ Iām not always playing something on the keys. Most of the time its just me and my trusty mouse for 90% of a project.
Technicallyā¦ YES, i could do it your way. And even more-soā¦ You could layer 70 synths to 70 different velocitiesā¦ THEN you would get around my problem of not being able to play different notes of samples/synthsā¦ BUT you would have to have the velocities exact. Odds are your not playing exact velocities when you hit a key. So youād have to go with your mouse and move it to the exact velocity to get the correct sound to play. And youād be constantly double checking to see what velocity matched whatever synth. Itās that extra step that would annoy the h3ll out of me. Because again, I already know what I want. Your version would be more precise and allow for more complex riffsā¦ Mine is just the quick & dirty version of you get what you put inā¦
its all just taste for what your trying to accomplish.
there is always more then 1 way to skin a cat.