Sorry, I’m not as long winded as I was yesterday, but I am still waiting for promises to be fulfilled. In my eyes, they have not been. But the price for a subscription got jacked up. We have had a very lackadaisical series in the Tribal tutorial and a bunch of Tech Tips. Don’t you just have to subscribe to the tech tips? You don’t even have to pay for those videos. All I’m saying is that there are TONS of promises that have been broken. I just don’t want to stick up for SA anymore. I don’t want my money back, I just want it fixed. You were doing one HTSL (and a great one at that) for quite a while every two weeks and tech tips in between. Then there became all this fluff about creating the same tutorials in a separate DAW. Whats that all about??? Don’t be lazy. Create a new one. We have no problem with cross platforms. But c’mon man. Its crap to be honest. On top of that, we had only one or two tutorials in about a ten week time period (approximation), when the site was going through the transformation. I don’t know how long you have been in business for gentlemen, but any changes to the website that goes on should be transparent. If my company was switching their computer system, or moving buildings, my customers should not even notice anything was going on. We should see absolutely no change in productivity. There is no excuse for that. Because as a paying customer, I don’t give a crap. I didn’t pay for downtime. I’m not aware of subscriptions being extended for two months. All I heard was a constant “bear with us mates while we iron out the kinks to the new website”. If you cant afford to hire help during this transition, then perhaps you should get a business loan. You keep spouting that this site is a business, then perhaps you should run it like one.
Im not even getting into the promised tutor help from the professionals that I never got. Bry, Phil, and Kev are never around. Ever. Unless of course it is to delete posts that are iffy about people that either do the same thing as SA or aim to help others out.
But subscribing to Sonic Academy is like purchasing a car, but the car didn’t have a steering wheel, gas pedals, or breaks. The radio still plays. It turns on and runs. It even has great trunk space. But it is lacking the integral pieces that were advertised that made it attractive in the first place.
For the last year Jon, Egg, Krome, and I (plus a few others) have been the tutors for the Sonic Academy Forums. We have done the job for Sonic Academy. And for what? This place is run like a dictatorship, when I thought the main idea was for people that love to create music to be able to come together and help each other out freely. We have all helped out and pitched in. Coming on to this site isnt as fun as it used to be. And we didn’t even get a single “THANK YOU”.
[quote]howiegroove (20/03/2010)[hr]Sorry, I’m not as long winded as I was yesterday, but I am still waiting for promises to be fulfilled. In my eyes, they have not been. But the price for a subscription got jacked up. We have had a very lackadaisical series in the Tribal tutorial and a bunch of Tech Tips. Don’t you just have to subscribe to the tech tips? You don’t even have to pay for those videos. All I’m saying is that there are TONS of promises that have been broken. I just don’t want to stick up for SA anymore. I don’t want my money back, I just want it fixed. You were doing one HTSL (and a great one at that) for quite a while every two weeks and tech tips in between. Then there became all this fluff about creating the same tutorials in a separate DAW. Whats that all about??? Don’t be lazy. Create a new one. We have no problem with cross platforms. But c’mon man. Its crap to be honest. On top of that, we had only one or two tutorials in about a ten week time period (approximation), when the site was going through the transformation. I don’t know how long you have been in business for gentlemen, but any changes to the website that goes on should be transparent. If my company was switching their computer system, or moving buildings, my customers should not even notice anything was going on. We should see absolutely no change in productivity. There is no excuse for that. Because as a paying customer, I don’t give a crap. I didn’t pay for downtime. I’m not aware of subscriptions being extended for two months. All I heard was a constant “bear with us mates while we iron out the kinks to the new website”. If you cant afford to hire help during this transition, then perhaps you should get a business loan. You keep spouting that this site is a business, then perhaps you should run it like one.
Im not even getting into the promised tutor help from the professionals that I never got. Bry, Phil, and Kev are never around. Ever. Unless of course it is to delete posts that are iffy about people that either do the same thing as SA or aim to help others out.
But subscribing to Sonic Academy is like purchasing a car, but the car didn’t have a steering wheel, gas pedals, or breaks. The radio still plays. It turns on and runs. It even has great trunk space. But it is lacking the integral pieces that were advertised that made it attractive in the first place.
For the last year Jon, Egg, Krome, and I (plus a few others) have been the tutors for the Sonic Academy Forums. We have done the job for Sonic Academy. And for what? This place is run like a dictatorship, when I thought the main idea was for people that love to create music to be able to come together and help each other out freely. We have all helped out and pitched in. Coming on to this site isnt as fun as it used to be. And we didn’t even get a single “THANK YOU”.
[/quote]
howie as much as i didn’t want the transition to hurt the site it unfortunately did. and this was through no fault of our own. if things went the way we wanted the site would have switched over and there would have been zero downtime.
all i can say is that we are working hard to get new video content to you, we are far from just sitting on our hands here. if we had 48 hours days maybe it could come quicker.
re tutor help, i personally do monitor the subscriber forum to help users with their questions, thankfully though people like yourself do help us out and get an answer in there before us. and if there is nothing for me to add then i dont!
and we do appreciate that help, which is why you receive a free subscriber account as part of our moderator / user council group.
all i ask is that you don’t come on here slating us for not delivering in march what we said we would, when the month isn’t even over yet. we delivered everything we said we would in february and we are trying hard to hit our targets for march.
Obviously Bry there is a lot of pent up frustration and anger toward the site as well as the moderators. I appreciate the free membership, but I don’t care to pay. I will speak up about my feelings, especially when Kev doesn’t return my emails. Even if I answer, or Jon, or Egg, or anyone else answers a question, doesnt mean a moderator shouldnt chime in dude. I’m not slating you, anyone else, or the site. I am, just like everyone else, a paying customer (at one point at least). I’m in sales Bry, and the customer is (almost)always right. And I think I have a right to be pissed off.
Kevin is right. This is not a Democracy, but you do have $100 of my money and I have a right to know what is going on. I field questions, and stick up for the site, but I dont even know how to answer. Empty promises bro. As paying customers, all we want is what we pay for. I understand that time is your major obstacle. However, you dont have to overdue yourself either. No one was complaining when there were two tech tips and two HTSL tutorials each month. They were quality tutorials too. You now have another guy in Chris helping out. Sweet. Hopefully things get more streamlined.
When a member pays for tutorials, and doesnt get anything for three months, what are we paying for? We dont care about your down time. You took out the caring and fun in the site by trying to control everything everyone posts. Fine. Its your business. But when you go that route, people are gonna expect stricter standards. You cant have it both ways. Either have a fun loving site and enforce the rules but dont try to control everything that goes on and be a little lax, or run it like a wall street executive, by the book, and everything you say you are gonna do, you do. Including the tutorials and personal tutoring for the new members that need it. I can tutor for you if you want, but you never approached me.
I told you dude, I’m here to help, but the staffs communication with its members is piss pour. You dont even fill the user council in.
[quote]howiegroove (20/03/2010)[hr]Obviously Bry there is a lot of pent up frustration and anger toward the site as well as the moderators. I appreciate the free membership, but I don’t care to pay. I will speak up about my feelings, especially when Kev doesn’t return my emails. Even if I answer, or Jon, or Egg, or anyone else answers a question, doesnt mean a moderator shouldnt chime in dude. I’m not slating you, anyone else, or the site. I am, just like everyone else, a paying customer (at one point at least). I’m in sales Bry, and the customer is (almost)always right. And I think I have a right to be pissed off.
Kevin is right. This is not a Democracy, but you do have $100 of my money and I have a right to know what is going on. I field questions, and stick up for the site, but I dont even know how to answer. Empty promises bro. As paying customers, all we want is what we pay for. I understand that time is your major obstacle. However, you dont have to overdue yourself either. No one was complaining when there were two tech tips and two HTSL tutorials each month. They were quality tutorials too. You now have another guy in Chris helping out. Sweet. Hopefully things get more streamlined.
When a member pays for tutorials, and doesnt get anything for three months, what are we paying for? We dont care about your down time. You took out the caring and fun in the site by trying to control everything everyone posts. Fine. Its your business. But when you go that route, people are gonna expect stricter standards. You cant have it both ways. Either have a fun loving site and enforce the rules but dont try to control everything that goes on and be a little lax, or run it like a wall street executive, by the book, and everything you say you are gonna do, you do. Including the tutorials and personal tutoring for the new members that need it. I can tutor for you if you want, but you never approached me.
I told you dude, I’m here to help, but the staffs communication with its members is piss pour. You dont even fill the user council in.[/quote]
Good post Howie,
I can’t speak for anyone else but everything you’ve said in your last few posts certainly struck a chord with me.
What I am about to say won’t go down too well but personally I think the user council thing is just a load of old bollox. its divisive to say the least and should be scrapped at the earliest opportunity as it doesn’t work.
Interesting to hear that the user council were given free subs. lol no wonder half the bloody posts coming from its quarters were pro SA. 
certainly explains a lot.
Got to agree about the level of control SA and its staff exert here. At times it can be stifling, too many rules and regulations are making this place rigid and rather boring.
I think the gov here spends too much time worrying about his empire and cracking the whip. maybe its time for him to delegate ?
Howie you’ve shown great bravery by speaking up and your posts more than any one’s should serve as an early warning signal to SA that things are going south.
Stay true to yourself bro, you are one of the good guys and would make a superb level headed moderator here or elsewhere for that matter. its a great shame SA haven’t recognised your efforts.
Respect.
it’s good to see that some people will say what the rest are thinking.
respect to both of you for your posts.
Krome i personally think that the user council was a great idea but thats all, it has no say, no power and therefore is currently useless. i think if used correctly then i could be great for the board. the people or user’s on the council are all members that love sonic academy and want it to be a great place, more importantly most have great respect for the forum users and want to give them the best possible experience. as it stands now though i have to totally agree with you.
yeah, the user council has been pretty dead for awhile , i still think it could serve a good purpose though. i get a little discouraged though when i feel I come up with a good idea for the site and get shot down. Im not a good producer or sound designer who can answer a lot of questions on the forums, but feel I can contribute best with creative input.
[quote]howiegroove (20/03/2010)[hr]Obviously Bry there is a lot of pent up frustration and anger toward the site as well as the moderators. I appreciate the free membership, but I don’t care to pay. I will speak up about my feelings, especially when Kev doesn’t return my emails. Even if I answer, or Jon, or Egg, or anyone else answers a question, doesnt mean a moderator shouldnt chime in dude. I’m not slating you, anyone else, or the site. I am, just like everyone else, a paying customer (at one point at least). I’m in sales Bry, and the customer is (almost)always right. And I think I have a right to be pissed off. [/quote]
howie, im not saying that, im just saying that i try to answer the questions as quickly as i can, between making tutorials and managing the sites content. if the question has been answered appropriately then i can get on with making vids! but thats not to say i wont chime in, as i do. - re kev not returning your mails, please if you have anything you require an answer to send it my way, kev is managing director and get a lot of mail through. your best to send your questions my way
[quote]
Kevin is right. This is not a Democracy, but you do have $100 of my money and I have a right to know what is going on. I field questions, and stick up for the site, but I dont even know how to answer. Empty promises bro. As paying customers, all we want is what we pay for. I understand that time is your major obstacle. However, you dont have to overdue yourself either. No one was complaining when there were two tech tips and two HTSL tutorials each month. They were quality tutorials too. You now have another guy in Chris helping out. Sweet. Hopefully things get more streamlined. [/quote]
like i said the month isn’t over yet!
[quote]
When a member pays for tutorials, and doesnt get anything for three months, what are we paying for?[/quote]
we have never gone three months with no content
@ Krome, much love dude. You have great posts and are an asset to this website. I believe you are here to help out others. I love to teach others and help out.
@ Jon, we are good friends. You as well are a great asset to this website as well as the lives of many young producers that browse this site and ask questions. You’re support is appreciated on many levels.
@ Bry, check it out. I got warned a while back along with Roben. When I asked Kev why, he would not answer me and said that “This is NOT a democracy and the tone of my voice will get me banned”. So I shaped up. Settled my beef with Roben and moved on. I am here to purely help out others.
@ Krome, much love dude. You have great posts and are an asset to this website. I believe you are here to help out others. I love to teach others and help out.
@ Jon, we are good friends. You as well are a great asset to this website as well as the lives of many young producers that browse this site and ask questions. You’re support is appreciated on many levels.
@ Bry, check it out. I got warned a while back along with Roben. When I asked Kev why, he would not answer me and said that “This is NOT a democracy and the tone of my voice will get me banned”. So I shaped up. Settled my beef with Roben and moved on. Then I got verbally attacked for no reason. But apparently, it seems that if I come up with a good enough testimonial for the website, I can do anything I want and get away with it. Then Phil said that if I post another link like this (LMGTFY - Let Me Google That For You) I would be banned. What for? THe one I posted was linked to a definition of a “stab” But the whole reason Phil got mad is because one was posted that said this (LMGTFY - Let Me Google That For You).
Like I said dude. I’m in business. Your members are speaking to you. I know you want to keep memberships. But this site just isn’t fun anymore. Its like Hitler is the new owner of the website. Help us make this place fun again Bryan. Kev does not listen to me. He could give a rat crap about me. But I am giving you the information you need to bring this site into prominence again.
Bry. recently the heavy handed moding has taken much of the fun away, so with out the fun we come on here with only serious music production in mind. if we find something not to our taste then frustrations are going to be vented on the forums.
we have a lot of very quiet users on sonic academy and although i don’t know them all i have email or ichat contact with a small number of them, many of who have said the feel like turning their backs on this site simply because they feel that you guys have not delivered.
some of the things i have been asked are
Didn’t sonic say that there would be new producer videos?
was we supposed to be getting new content, like samples packs and such?
didn’t sonic mention that we would have much more content after the new site was launched?
are sonic seriously going to charge us for material that we were previously getting for free?
where is all the new content?
the list goes on. to be fair guy the answer to all of those question is yes !!!
the other answer is no you have not delivered!!!
i’ve been defending you for a long time, not because i am a user council member but because i’m a fan of this site. i think however it’s time guy for you to start delivering
people are getting bored of second chances.
Amen
[quote]jon_fisher (21/03/2010)[hr]Bry. recently the heavy handed moding has taken much of the fun away, so with out the fun we come on here with only serious music production in mind. if we find something not to our taste then frustrations are going to be vented on the forums.
we have a lot of very quiet users on sonic academy and although i don’t know them all i have email or ichat contact with a small number of them, many of who have said the feel like turning their backs on this site simply because they feel that you guys have not delivered.
some of the things i have been asked are
Didn’t sonic say that there would be new producer videos?
was we supposed to be getting new content, like samples packs and such?
didn’t sonic mention that we would have much more content after the new site was launched?
are sonic seriously going to charge us for material that we were previously getting for free?
where is all the new content?
the list goes on. to be fair guy the answer to all of those question is yes !!!
the other answer is no you have not delivered!!!
i’ve been defending you for a long time, not because i am a user council member but because i’m a fan of this site. i think however it’s time guy for you to start delivering
people are getting bored of second chances.[/quote]
I’m sorry but i’ve gotta agree with Jon here.
I don’t post particulary often but I browse the forums quite a bit. I agree totally with the regular posters & I can certainly feel their pain.
For starters, I don’t think the website change did any good. IMO it just seemed to waste alot of time & during that period there were only a handful of tuts.
Secondly, it’s pretty basic in buisness to know that you don’t promise your paying customers something if you can’t deliver. Instead surprise them(eg don’t say you are relseaseing a tut, the release it two weeks later, but release a tut without having mentioned it.
Thirdly, I feel alot of the subscribers feel a bit put out by the fact that they paid their money but then if you just joined up you could get free tech tips.
Finally, & this is a big one for me. Are youtube vids banned? This is pointless. Timofey, among others, put out great vids which can help SA members learn & don’t pester for donations much. Sure SA could make the tut 4 months later but whats the point when another person is doing it for free. It’s almost like you want to take credit for every tut possible. If its available for free it should be allowed to be shown to a member to help them learn.
I could go on but I’m sure you get it by now. Thus convo comes up about once a month now. SA usually says we’ll do better next time…but then another month goes by.
Hope I’m not being too harsh but I feel I have the right to speak my mind. On other forums when music production comes up, I always tell people about SA but it feels as if we don’t get enough in return…