I originally started using Cubase and then switched over to Ableton, friends keep suggesting use Cubase for the mixdown. I remember a Joris Voorn video where he does this, bounces the original tracks down into cubase and does additional eq’ing / compressing & if necessary and perfecting the mixdown in there.
Do any of you do this and is it worth it?
Mixing as I go means I’m pretty happy with everything in Ableton, but I can never get that same clarity that I can get in Cubase.
I do the same thing sometimes… or rather I have for a couple tracks.
I also started on cubase and then moved over to ableton.
The mixer in cubase is AWESOME compared to ableton.
When you do it. Just make sure you have the entire track written in ableton. Makes it much easier.
funny I’ve in the process of trying cubase. I like it so far, dunno if its just a placebo effect from the interface but is it possible for different DAW’s to have different audio quality?
I noticed with ableton that when I have a track as a ghost track playing back its doesnt seem to sound as good as it does in windows media player. Just as cubase seem a little cleaner in sound if that make sense.
[quote]gofunk (19/04/2011)[hr]funny I’ve in the process of trying cubase. I like it so far, dunno if its just a placebo effect from the interface but is it possible for different DAW’s to have different audio quality?
I noticed with ableton that when I have a track as a ghost track playing back its doesnt seem to sound as good as it does in windows media player. Just as cubase seem a little cleaner in sound if that make sense.[/quote]
no it makes sense. cubase does IMO sound a little better then ableton. less gritty i think.
thats the whole point of rewiring ableton into cubase. that way you get the cubase audio quality.
I agree - IMO Cubase sounds noticeably better than Ableton.
I have heard 2 diff theories for this -
- Something to do with the way the 2 DAWs sum the tracks to the master outputs.
- The way that Ableton calculates the delay compensation when plugins are introduced to tracks. Apparently Ableton does this very badly due to it having to save CPU (to remain efficient - as a LIVE program), leading to all types on phasing issues and therefore lower audio quality.
I read this 2nd argument on another forum that I think Howie was chiming into so I’m sure he might have an opinion on this and be able to shed some more light on, (perhaps a link - I can’t find it again).
Mathematically the real reasoning behind what makes it sound better is beyond me, and some maintain the DAWS sounding diff a myth… but to my ears Ableton sounds like it is coming from a tin shed compared to Cubase’s rich open sound (maybe a bit of an exaggeration…;).
It ****s me though as I’ve recently tried to write my stuff in Cubase, and I find Ableton more enjoyable to write in.
It is the end sound that counts though.
[quote]rmallam (19/04/2011)[hr]I agree - IMO Cubase sounds noticeably better than Ableton.
I have heard 2 diff theories for this -
- Something to do with the way the 2 DAWs sum the tracks to the master outputs.
- The way that Ableton calculates the delay compensation when plugins are introduced to tracks. Apparently Ableton does this very badly due to it having to save CPU (to remain efficient - as a LIVE program), leading to all types on phasing issues and therefore lower audio quality.
I read this 2nd argument on another forum that I think Howie was chiming into so I’m sure he might have an opinion on this and be able to shed some more light on, (perhaps a link - I can’t find it again).
Mathematically the real reasoning behind what makes it sound better is beyond me, and some maintain the DAWS sounding diff a myth… but to my ears Ableton sounds like it is coming from a tin shed compared to Cubase’s rich open sound (maybe a bit of an exaggeration…;).
It ****s me though as I’ve recently tried to write my stuff in Cubase, and I find Ableton more enjoyable to write in.
It is the end sound that counts though.[/quote]
I dont know where u heard that bro ,. but as long as i know Cubase have 4 different panning laws. wich makes the track sounds fuller. also Ableton have this auto fades setting that sometimes mess the way we perceive the audio. it doesn’t have anything to do with outputs . ( unless u have a ****ty interface :P)
all DAWs are supposed to sound equally good. IMO
[quote]rmallam (19/04/2011)[hr]I agree - IMO Cubase sounds noticeably better than Ableton.
but to my ears Ableton sounds like it is coming from a tin shed compared to Cubase’s rich open sound (maybe a bit of an exaggeration…;).
It ****s me though as I’ve recently tried to write my stuff in Cubase, and I find Ableton more enjoyable to write in.
It is the end sound that counts though.[/quote]
funny this has come up now - just about 2 weeks ago i decided to switch back to writing in ableton.
i started out in ableton and moved to cubase - i just think my stuff sounds better in cubase.
but so many people only use live and can get good sounds out of it, so i figured it was just me not using it properly
so my normal process became writing in cubase and that was great for about a year but lately i had been stuck in a bit of a rut creatively and decided to try ableton again
i started coming up with stuff quite quickly and its definitely faster and a smoother workflow writing in Live than in Cubase
but the Mixer in cubase is way better - the faders are about twice as long for a start so the adjustments that can be made during a mixdown must be finer incrementally than in live
also using the shift key and the mouse in cubase lets you have much more detailed control of the faders for tiny adjustments
as far as i know there is no such function in ableton (is there?)
so i exported the stems to do the mixdown in cubase but i hadnt set the individual tracks at the same tempo as the master and it came out all messed up when i imported to cubase - so that was a bum
but i def intend to mix/master in cubase after writing / arranging in live from now on
in session view in ableton you can extend the faders, just move the mouse above them and drag the line up where the screen spilts, this will give you better fader control in ableton.
Whether you have a *****ty interface or not, that shouldn’t effect the difference in the sound of the outputs of diff DAWs. It is the last part of your chain and is therefore a common factor for all DAW’s you are testing.
As I said in my original post, I read this info when looking for answers when I noticed a better sound coming out of Cubase (to my ears - others may disagree). Below are the links. The post I am referring to is half way down the page by a person called “nopattern”. The arguments that follow onto the next page are also interesting. I am not always convinced by what I read on forums as you don’t know what information people are basing their opinions on, but I did find this post interesting.
http://www.idmforums.com/showthread.php?t=54715
thanks for posting… very interesting 
[quote]gofunk (19/04/2011)[hr]in session view in ableton you can extend the faders, just move the mouse above them and drag the line up where the screen spilts, this will give you better fader control in ableton.[/quote]
i did wonder!
It lets you see the db’s as well - which is a fkn necessity :w00t:
Took me a while to figure out how to get to them - LOL
[quote]ICN (20/04/2011)[hr]It lets you see the db’s as well - which is a fkn necessity :w00t:
Took me a while to figure out how to get to them- LOL[/quote]
Yeah when I was testing Live I was thinking the whole program failed because of the lack of seeing dbs and little faders
so how does this cuabse into ableton stuff work?
I must I like cubase, there are a few things you are do with it that you cant in ableton which are handy as.
But the lack of session view is a little bit of a downer and thing do take a little longer to get set up.
Could I rewire ableton so I can use session view then move everything over to cubase for arrangement and automated etc as well and mix down with bouncing down. Like when reason is rewired into ableton?
Yup.
Rewire lets ya use Cubase like a 16 channel (at a time) tape recorder.
RW is 16 stereo channels afaik.
for cpu reasons i have been bouncing down the individual channels in ableton
loading them into cubase
are there any recommended export settings for this? that side of things i’m not too clued up
i have live rewired into cubase but it doesnt record the track thats playing
what do i do?
[quote]chekka (20/04/2011)[hr]i have live rewired into cubase but it doesnt record the track thats playing
what do i do?[/quote]
years since I used cubase- but theres an option to arm the track?
Is it going through to an audio track in cubase? Then arm it & hit record?
- go to devices window/vst connections & create a group …
- from project window, select the rewire track & from the inspector, route the output to the group track.
- Create a Audio track & from the inspector, select the group track as input source,
arm the track & hit record…
[quote]lenners (20/04/2011)[hr]1. go to devices window/vst connections & create a group …
2. from project window, select the rewire track & from the inspector, route the output to the group track.
3. Create a Audio track & from the inspector, select the group track as input source,
arm the track & hit record…
;)[/quote]
and we have recording!
cheers mate - i knew in cubase the routing would be sorta convoluted and not the obvious things i was fiddling with
so now instead of creating a track in ableton and exporting the stems to import them to cubase i can just record them direct as audio into cubase
the only problem is external plugins which is a pity
but i was playing with that and the way to do it is add them (like eq or whatever) to the group track in cubase while the track is playing and sort all that out
and them they will be passed thru to the audio
i tried adding an eq plugin to the audio track and that affected the sound while it was recording but while record was swithced off it did not affect the sound
which i suppose is obvious enough when u think about it
but hey thats really cool - thanks! 