Now before I start, this isn’t a rant, it’s a discussion before anyone thinks that i’m writing this down to any particular instance, although i do have instances of reference which i’ll share with you, the point of this thread is to share our stories as well as to educate other members of not only how fickle the industry can be, but also to watch their guard to prevent any of the following instances & stories happening to them.
Ok so, lets begin…
Tell us your stories or instances when a Promoter, DJ, Management, Producer, Engineer or anyone else related to the industry has fobbed you off, done you wrong, let you down, cheated you of money, etc.
[quote]roben (23/07/2010)[hr]Now before I start, this isn’t a rant, it’s a discussion before anyone thinks that i’m writing this down to any particular instance, although i do have instances of reference which i’ll share with you, the point of this thread is to share our stories as well as to educate other members of not only how fickle the industry can be, but also to watch their guard to prevent any of the following instances & stories happening to them.
Ok so, lets begin…
Tell us your stories or instances when a Promoter, DJ, Mangement, Producer, Engineer or anyone else related to the industry has fobbed you off, done you wrong, let you down, cheated you of money, etc.[/quote]
Well, I dont really wish to share anything, but it is the music business. People are greedy and there is usually alot of money involved. Moral of the story, be careful.
BTW, sorry, but I choose not to divulge info as to personal events that have happened in my life in this matter. You might be better off as to posting something saying “tell us your best advice to prevent you or a friend get hurt in the music business.”
[quote]roben (23/07/2010)[hr]Now before I start, this isn’t a rant, it’s a discussion before anyone thinks that i’m writing this down to any particular instance, although i do have instances of reference which i’ll share with you, the point of this thread is to share our stories as well as to educate other members of not only how fickle the industry can be, but also to watch their guard to prevent any of the following instances & stories happening to them.
Ok so, lets begin…
Tell us your stories or instances when a Promoter, DJ, Mangement, Producer, Engineer or anyone else related to the industry has fobbed you off, done you wrong, let you down, cheated you of money, etc.[/quote]
What’s the point in focusing on negatives? Plenty of positive stuff out there. However, ‘Mangement’ sounds nasty - can the doctor give you a prescription for that?
Spill the beans guys 
Roben any profession there is always good and bad. You just have to pick your battles bud, I have had the pleasure of working and learning from some of the pros in the industry and have nothing but praise and most respect for them ! Its a cut-throat industry and who you know plays a big role, not just in the EDM scene but anything with life !
I was “cheated” in the King of the Decks Competition last year, which really peed me off!
I had 3 heats in my home town, which i smashed putting me into the semi’s. After doing the semi’s, i got through and put into the quarters at the Oceana Nottingham. In previous rounds we had, had 30 minutes each to impress the crowd and also the judges which was a nice amount of time each and i was still under the impression that this was correct going into the quarters however, as i turned upto the venue, I went upto the DJ booth to setup my laptop and asked him what the running times were going to be. He replied with “10 minutes”… couldn’t believe it, i had based my whole set around 30 minutes so naturally, i had to improvise.
So, few DJ’s were before me and they were “OK”, nothing special really all playing the same sort of thing (BEP - I gotta feeling laidback luke edit and Sidney Samson - Riverside etc) and they didn’t interact with the audience at all, just hung there heads in the CDJ’s. It was my turn, my set was to be a little different, playing only Dutch House which was quirky, funky and was dropping acapella’s all over the place, interacting the LOT! Came off with a massive smile on my face knowing that i was well ahead of the competition. Few more DJ’s took the the stage after me, again nothing spectacular at all and i had the majority of people coming upto me in the club saying how good my set was and that they all thought i deserved to win… how wrong were they.
Went outside to have a cig just before they announced the winner and one of my best mates came upto me and said “you haven’t got a chance”! lol, so i asked him why? One of the DJ’s was a DUO, had been touring the UK for the past 3-4 years professionally and knew everyone involved in the contest (management and promotions) and also everyone working at the club, they were all very well known. Bit of a piss-take really as the competition was for amateurs who hadn’t had the chance to get on the BIG stage yet, so effectively they shouldn’t have been in the competition.
As my mate said, i didn’t stand and chance and he was right… they gathered everyone together and announced the winner and it was them! You could of heard a pin drop in the club, no one cheered or anything and it was all down to everyone knowing that it was rigged and they were going to win from the start!!
I did send a letter of complaint to them after i had calmed down :w00t: but never received anything back from them… think i rattled them to be honest.
Few weeks later, i went to the club in my hometown where the heats were and saw the club manager, who i knew quite well before the competition and i was telling her all about it… she didn’t seem shocked at all… it was obvious that she also knew too.
I’m not saying all competitions are this way at all, but i just think its a joke when DJ’s put in so much effort to get heard and seen and they rig the entire thing… but they dont even try to cover it up, they make it so obvious!! 
Sad times really.
Apart from that, never had any problems. Hope that contributes to your forum post roben
In this business you are inevitably going to get ur fingers burned, toes trodden on and stabbed in the back…i’m sorry but if your going to look at the negatives there will be many…like lots of people we all want to have our tracks played…we want to perform…and we would love to make a living making music if possible…but as I said;
SO DO MANY OTHER PEOPLE…
and to get recognized for what you do will not be easy, dj’s are ten a penny, so to stand out from the crowd dj’s now produce, so there are more producers (or people making their own tracks) than ever b4!
I’ve been djing on and off for over 15 years and there has always been someone waiting in the wings for a chance to take my place, undercut my fee and make promises to promoters/club owners just to get me out and themselves in.
Supply and demand is key but at the moment there is plenty of supply and not enough demand.
I say just enjoy what you are doing as more of a part of your life, don’t take it too seriously at first, work hard putting yourself about a bit and if you get chances take them but you won’t find too many GOOD friends in promoters, record companies, club owners etc they have one thing in mind…MONEY…they won’t have passion for what you do, like you do, they just want sales and bums on seats. You will also meet a lot of people that will use you as a hurdle to get a step up or get recognized themselves.
I’ve lost track of the amount of times i’ve heard of dj’s having to chase the promoter or club owner to get paid.
So IMHO look out for number one, i’ve always been generous with my knowledge and the skills i’ve learned but offering others help has never given me anything other than a nice warm feeling inside.
MARC
lol why is everyone jumping on the bang wagon of [i]“think about the positives and not the negatives”[/i]? Roben was only asking if anyone had any stories but everyone is going completely the opposite way with it all… 
[quote]HOUSEJAK (23/07/2010)[hr]lol why is everyone jumping on the bang wagon of [i]“think about the positives and not the negatives”[/i]? Roben was only asking if anyone had any stories but everyone is going completely the opposite way with it all… ;)[/quote]
I’m sorry but if Roben is going to ask for peoples worst experiences AKA ‘Being fobbed of by Industry people’ - WHAT ARE YOU EXPECTING TO HEAR?
When I made reference to the ‘negatives’ I meant its all subjective, if you don’t let the knock backs the cheats and the dikheads get to you, then what does anything anyone says in this topic matter anyway??
Sorry Marc, i didn’t direct my comment at you, just in general really. I gathered that Roben was after people’s experiences and not whole “lectures” about the music industry.
I think were all more than aware what a cut-throat business it is.
my dad has been in the entertainment industry for over 30 years. from the people hes known and the people ive met thru him and the stories he tells me and the things ive seen happen lead me to give you this piece of advice… this is the greatest and best 100% true piece of advice youre going to hear…
- Do NOT believe a single word people in the entertainment industry tell you. its not that theyre trying to do you over, its just that they cant help themselves.
- Do NOT get excited(!) by a proposition or contract/deal/project theyre are planning on envolving you in… until its signed (litererally on paper) or youve been given some money… then take it, the whole thing… as bu||$hit…
- people in the industry LOVE to talk about how great they are… how successful they are… all the great things theyve got going on… 99% of the people telling you all this are “front and bu||$hit”. they pretend to be something theyre not to further themselves… which you may do yourself… but dont think youre the only one doing it… they are too and even more so… (see point 1 above)
- of course there are some genuine people involved. by being around these types of people our whole life me and my brother can spot the “front and bu||$hit” merchants straight away.
if i can think of anything else ill post it lol
edit…
oh ye… i received a phone call one evening about 11pm… it was the secretary of a big exec in one of THE big record companies (universal, virgin, sony… cant remeber the one it was)… he had heard my tracks and wanted to sign me! he couldnt believe i was only 18 and wanted his secretary to confirm it while he was travelling back from the US… well 11 years later im still waiting to hear from him… lol
here is a copy of an email I got from a “record label”:
“I’ve had a listen to your tracks, and as of far I am impressed with your production.
As we are currently eager for new artists, we are hoping to put out a set of releases asap.
I am hoping we will be able to come up with a deal on the two tracks found on your Soundcloud page.
For these to be released, firstly you will have to confirm that you are the original artist of the tracks, and that you have used all samples and sounds legitimately, as well as having the right to attribute copyright and distribution of the selected tracks. Wavestorm Records will take no liability for any occurrences if this is not the case.
From the time of submitting the tracks to our distributor, it may take around two months for the songs to be released online. It will also not be possible to distribute these songs a second time to the same companies, and Wavestorm Records would solely be the label representing the selected tracks.
If we agree for a release, Wavestorm Records would also be able to supply artwork for the track. There will be no costs that are required to be paid to Wavestorm Records from yourself.
Once the tracks are released, you will received 90% of the income that is received from the distributor to Wavestorm Records.
I hope we will be able to negotiate a deal as we are eager to work with new artists.
Please respond with any queries or questions, and we’ll be able to start preparing for a release if we come to an agreement.
I hope to hear from you soon,”
After further conversations it turned out the guy was looking for the midi parts to rip off my tune!
and yes I look into there web page and releases, they had some on itunes and amazon etc and look like the real deal… then I found out about Tunecore! (google it n you’ll u’ll see what I mean)!
So basically, the label was gonna use Tunecore and make 10% off of you for nothing?
[quote]howiegroove (23/07/2010)[hr]So basically, the label was gonna use Tunecore and make 10% off of you for nothing?[/quote]
No the releases they had where via tunecore (its that easy) and thats what made them look real but all they really wanted where the midi parts to rip me off.
Which I relized after a lot more e-mail and a skpye conversations.
[quote]HOUSEJAK (23/07/2010)[hr]I was “cheated” in the King of the Decks Competition last year, which really peed me off!
I had 3 heats in my home town, which i smashed putting me into the semi’s. After doing the semi’s, i got through and put into the quarters at the Oceana Nottingham. In previous rounds we had, had 30 minutes each to impress the crowd and also the judges which was a nice amount of time each and i was still under the impression that this was correct going into the quarters however, as i turned upto the venue, I went upto the DJ booth to setup my laptop and asked him what the running times were going to be. He replied with “10 minutes”… couldn’t believe it, i had based my whole set around 30 minutes so naturally, i had to improvise.
So, few DJ’s were before me and they were “OK”, nothing special really all playing the same sort of thing (BEP - I gotta feeling laidback luke edit and Sidney Samson - Riverside etc) and they didn’t interact with the audience at all, just hung there heads in the CDJ’s. It was my turn, my set was to be a little different, playing only Dutch House which was quirky, funky and was dropping acapella’s all over the place, interacting the LOT! Came off with a massive smile on my face knowing that i was well ahead of the competition. Few more DJ’s took the the stage after me, again nothing spectacular at all and i had the majority of people coming upto me in the club saying how good my set was and that they all thought i deserved to win… how wrong were they.
Went outside to have a cig just before they announced the winner and one of my best mates came upto me and said “you haven’t got a chance”! lol, so i asked him why? One of the DJ’s was a DUO, had been touring the UK for the past 3-4 years professionally and knew everyone involved in the contest (management and promotions) and also everyone working at the club, they were all very well known. Bit of a piss-take really as the competition was for amateurs who hadn’t had the chance to get on the BIG stage yet, so effectively they shouldn’t have been in the competition.
As my mate said, i didn’t stand and chance and he was right… they gathered everyone together and announced the winner and it was them! You could of heard a pin drop in the club, no one cheered or anything and it was all down to everyone knowing that it was rigged and they were going to win from the start!!
I did send a letter of complaint to them after i had calmed down :w00t: but never received anything back from them… think i rattled them to be honest.
Few weeks later, i went to the club in my hometown where the heats were and saw the club manager, who i knew quite well before the competition and i was telling her all about it… she didn’t seem shocked at all… it was obvious that she also knew too.
I’m not saying all competitions are this way at all, but i just think its a joke when DJ’s put in so much effort to get heard and seen and they rig the entire thing… but they dont even try to cover it up, they make it so obvious!!
Sad times really.
Apart from that, never had any problems. Hope that contributes to your forum post roben
[/quote]
DJ Competitions are like this all the time bud, i’ve had my fair share…
Although at the same time i’ve won a couple including the Brighton final of the world Corona comp so all good
However the guy who won the South UK final after that was the worst DJ out of the whole competition, like you said he knew the judges and everyone thought he was terrible. I ended up coming 3rd out of 200 in total so i wasn’t bitter, just thought it was a farce. Especially as one guy who played was sh*t hot, better than me i thought, and he didn’t win.
Yeah I think some of you have got the wrong end of the stick, this thread wasn’t to start pointing and dweling on negatives. It was to share experiences and stories, it’s all interesting read for people.
Heres one recent one from me…
We ran a night at a local bar/club, who we agreed to run the night at costs and no profit.
So we spanked over £400 and pulled a lot of strings to get things cheap / free. Anyways we ended up smashing it, filled the place to capacity and made the place £4200 (only 300 cap venue). Anyways we invoiced them for £350 because we agreed we’d keep costs low, that’s only 8% of the bar take. From other venues we’ve worked with we’ve always been given a guaranteed minimum of 10% bar take if we weren’t charging at the door.
They started trying to fob us off after and saying they never agreed to pay costs, when they know full well they did!! Like any business is willing to spank over £400 willingly making a loss? Surely no ones that stupid.
Anyways needless to say 2 months on and we’re still waiting for even a penny…
Solicitors letter still hasn’t resolved anything.
[quote]roben (23/07/2010)[hr]Yeah I think some of you have got the wrong end of the stick, this thread wasn’t to start pointing and dweling on negatives. It was to share experiences and stories, it’s all interesting read for people.
Heres one recent one from me…
We ran a night at a local bar/club, who we agreed to run the night at costs and no profit.
So we spanked over £400 and pulled a lot of strings to get things cheap / free. Anyways we ended up smashing it, filled the place to capacity and made the place £4200 (only 300 cap venue). Anyways we invoiced them for £350 because we agreed we’d keep costs low, that’s only 8% of the bar take. From other venues we’ve worked with we’ve always been given a guaranteed minimum of 10% bar take if we weren’t charging at the door.
They started trying to fob us off after and saying they never agreed to pay costs, when they know full well they did!! Like any business is willing to spank over £400 willingly making a loss? Surely no ones that stupid.
Anyways needless to say 2 months on and we’re still waiting for even a penny…
Solicitors letter still hasn’t resolved anything.[/quote]
pathetic
That post about never trusting people or believing what they say is really true, i guess even from my instance above.
However it comes true for the nightlife industry as well, not just for people who work in it but for the regular punters. You get your regulars and it’s so very fickle, people pretending to be your friend but arn’t, it’s very two faced and there arn’t that many genuine people out there. I have my good friends who i trust however it’s only around a dozen peeps. Which is only a small amount when you look at how many people i actually know in Brighton, I hear London is exactly the same.
What i’ve gathered from people watching, is in the clubbing scene people are either holding status or chasing status, if you’re DJ / promoter / dealer everyone loves you, if you’re not one of those you’re usually chasing and kissing *** to those who are.
There are only a small few who arn’t like that, those people become my friends.