In 2010 in the UK, 1,200,000,000 single music tracks were illegally downloaded from unauthorised sources, three quarters of all music tracks that are digitally acquired in the UK are being illegally downloaded, which equates to two full albums for every woman, man and child in the country and currently eight million people in the UK illegally downloading music with no signs of abating.

These figures get worse each and every year, what will be the outcome? Is the music industry f*cked?

What are your thoughts? Are you an illegal downloader? (If you are) Why do you do it with single sales only being around 82p? That’s like stealing from Poundland lol.

Though I don’t have any specific data to back up my claim, it’s been my experience the majority of people illegally downloading music are younger and I’d say that’s both due to younger people being more in connect with new music and older people’s lack of knowledge or desire to use bit torrent-like software.

In the end, every kid comes up with the same regurgitated “I’m just a college kid and I’m broke” justification. Whether or not that’s a bs response isn’t for me to debate.

woohoo, does this the likes of Rihanna & Lady Gaga are still in with a chance of going bust? if so keep up the good work!!

I wonder what the spilt between genres of music is? There are some genres that are not a popular as they once where and therefore download of this type can have a bad effect on the music we love - hence why the money is to be made in gigs not record sales.

I pay for music and never illegally download. But the stats you give are only part of the story. 1 illegal download does not equal 1 less legal purchase.

Sales of legal downloads has been going up, although not by as much as CD sales have fallen.

[quote]BBC News - Downloads up as album sales drop

Thursday, 7 January 2010

Statistics released by trade body the BPI showed overall album sales dropped by 3.5% in 2009 to 128.9 million, the fifth year in a row they have fallen.

But the fall was eased by a 56.1% rise in album downloads to 16.1 million, now accounting for one in eight sold.

The news comes days after weekly sales of singles - on CD and download - recorded an all-time high.

An unprecedented 4.22 million singles were sold in the last week of 2009 - more than in any previous week. The sales boom was put down to the use of new MP3 players received as Christmas presents, as music fans downloaded a wide range of tracks, old and new.

Across the entire year, singles sales increased by 32.7% to a record 152 million, with 98% of those being digital downloads.


Here is where I stand…

I download maybe an average of 20 tracks a week sometimes more.

I start out on beatport or something checking dj charts and the likes, if I hear a track I like that is only part of an album or restricted in my area I will try find it somewhere else… If it happens to be available somewhere for free, 9 times out of 10 il download it.

Out of the 20 tracks I download chances are 2/3 are obtained by somebody choosing to “share” those tracks with me.

On the other had if somebody accused me of stealing from an artist or the industry in general I would have no problem showing them my cd collection, my vinyl collection and my purchase history from beatport,I tunes, stompy and dj download and let them decide for themselves am I stealing from or contributing to the industry.

I donno what you guys make of it or if you would feel comfortable posting how ye option music but I def would like to here where ye stand on it.

Surely as kids we all made mix tapes etc etc so really its the equilivent of this - is the music industry going to die just like the film industry says every year since the invention of cheap VHS players - I think not, the music industry just has to come up with new ideas in selling their wares

It may be immoral to d/load things illegally but its not going to stop

ultimately the Internet is as "good as it is “bad” so yeah people are downloading music illegally bit musicians and label now have other ways to reach people and make money.

Imo this is only gonna get worse. Im 20 years of age and I only know 2 or 3 people who actually pay for thier music. However I will say that people who usually illegally download usually only follow what is on the charts and in actually fact don’t care about the actual music, but infact just use it as a social talking point/ way to talk about their latest celeb.

All great points guys!

The internet is a strange one really, in one hand it’s helped a lot of new artists not only get their name out there but also thier music, it’s also allowed it so that you don’t ‘need’ a record label in order to sell your music either.

However you weight things up, there is pros and cons to the internet however you look at it.

Remember though, recording on tape and VHS never had the same ‘quality’ as actually buying the single on tape, for instance when i was a kid, if you wanted to record on tape you’d more often than not also have part of the track with the radio DJ talking on it.

There is also the arguement that just because there has been a track illegally downloaded, that track may not have actually ever been bought in the first place. So there was never any ‘loss’ in the beginning.

But then you also have the fact that some people download lots of stuff, find out what they do like and then buy the actual product. Where as if they’d never downloaded the material, they may never have found what they liked (such as new artists / albums / etc) and bought it in the first place, so in that respect… the original ‘illegal downloading’ actually turned profitable to an artist rather than a loss.

However there are those out there that literally rape everything because they’re too tight to give anything back, which is unfair.

If you enjoy the music, you should give something back, think of it like a donation to the artist (as a thankyou perhaps even?) so they can make more music for you to enjoy.

On that note, physical album sales have increased a lot, whilst 99% of singles are bought legaly via download now as opposed to a physical product. Only 19.6% of albums are bought digitally, which means that a lot of people out there are still buying the physical product.

I used to illegally download all the time, but as soon as I did a music tech course, and tried producing myself I stopped completely.

People put a hell of a lot of effort into their tracks (well most anyway) I just feel proper tight stealing it now. And like you say roben, 82p ish ain’t a big price to pay for your favourite producer to carry on going

I usually search through beatport, trackitdown or whatever then get it half the price on iTunes if it’s available.

That’s interesting you should say that, perhaps people don’t realise that even though a track is 4 minutes long say, that it still takes weeks / months to produce.

Another argument I’ve heard from someone once is “I’ve seen Cribs, they get enough money as it is”, which is a really narrow view to the actual reality of majority of musicians.

Personally, I have done it before. I think most of us have, if not all. However, here is my take. Who is really getting rich off of the artist? Not the artist. The production is only their gateway to performance. Just about all recording artists make their money from touring, not record sales. It used to be the opposite way. The record industry is ever evolving, however, with the advent of iTunes and the like, I don’t know if the future of the music and the movie industry have a promising future.

[quote]howiegroove (15/01/2011)[hr] However, here is my take. Who is really getting rich off of the artist? Not the artist. T[/quote]

This is a very valid point

I’m quite interested in Billy Bragg and the FAC


Yeah definitely agree with that, a lot of artists now can only make a living through performance, which unfortunately doesn’t leave much for ‘songwriters’, where do they stand? They get such a small % of song sale as it is where as the ‘artist’ gets most (depending on the deal they have with the label, think some major labels get the biggest cut as it’s not 50/50% in that world).

So will we lose songwriters? Well… the songwriters who don’t / can’t perform.

Well songwriters can make money by writing forfilms ads and TV - its all about being diverse - there will always be winners and losers, probably more of the later but thats just life

I would at a guess say that 99% of people on this forum are not in it for the money but for the love of the music which is priceless - sure we all dream of a lucky break and the more people illegally downloading your track the more famous you are getting so its not all bad if you follow my logic :stuck_out_tongue:

I agree with howie about it . Producing Music is a gateways for paid gigs . nowadays where everyone is a Dj , poser, Producer, need to understand that u cant make money just doing one thing . reality sucks sometimes !!! :frowning:

[quote]howiegroove (15/01/2011)[hr] Just about all recording artists make their money from touring, not record sales. It used to be the opposite way. The record industry is ever evolving, however, with the advent of iTunes and the like, I don’t know if the future of the music and the movie industry have a promising future.[/quote]

True to a point, but also, and especially in dance music, many artists aren’t prolific enough or choose to consider playing live as an option.

They may have no interest in DJing either so any form out playing out isn’t an option. Back in the ‘day’ selling 6000 Vinyls might have turned up a bit more cash than 6000 mp3s + illegal downloads.

I just happen to have met with Nick Halkes (started XL records, discovered the Prodigy, recorded ‘The Bouncer’) and the stories he was telling really reminded me how different things these days!

The only way to stop this is for extremely harsh penalties for people that get caught, and then heavy publicity in the news, papers etc about these people going to jail or getting fined 10000000000000 etc. Another option is to start tackling sites like speedyshare, rapidshare, zippyshare etc. They need to start sueing the **** out of these websites that might also help. As for not being able to see who downloads what illegaly etc thats bull****! If they can catch an entire pedofile ring scattered accross the globe from one IP address they can see whos downloading what. The big boys of music need to change too, CD’s are way too expensive and i think more needs to be done on stuff like itunes, beatport etc. These are just some ways that might help stimulate the economy but things are going to have to change very soon and people that d/l music ilegaly should be schooled and made aware that they are killing the music making industry.

Slender also makes a really good point i’d rather have a million people download my tracks illegaly then 100,000 that buy it. However you look at it its all about getting your name out there and then cashing in on your performances.

Look at Hollywood and how you can watch movies now on the internet, they are all crying and bitching yet these actors are still getting paid like 10million dollars per movie etc

But the punishments need to be made more severe if you really want to put the brakes in.

I think alot of it is about education.

Personally, as someone who produces, i can say that trying to produce great dance tracks has proved to be a thousand times more difficult than i thought it would be!

I don’t download any music illegally now, because i have been educated as to how much hard work, dedication, commitment and practice etc goes into producing great music.

People who do produce great music deserve to be paid something for it.

I am thinking (and hoping) that if many more people could learn this, then many more people would pay for music!