[quote]UnitedVision (05/04/2011)[hr][quote]willidaniel (05/04/2011)[hr][quote]TheAnt (05/04/2011)[hr][quote]willidaniel (05/04/2011)[hr][quote]
no question that Guetta is getting mad help. i mean i never heard of the guy until all the sudden he’s considered one of the best dj’s in the world just like that!!
seemed so quick!! it’s all about the marketing!!
Guetta proved that to me more than anyone!![/quote]
What? When did you hear about David Guetta? Just a little more love came out 10 years ago, and he was DJing before that, I wouldn’t exactly call that over night.[/quote]
just to the degree of how big he’s gotten. he’s marketing team is ace!! heard plenty more producers/dj that i thought were a lot better than guetta in my opinion that haven’t come close to his popularity right now. and probably never will. but hey that’s the nature of this business.[/quote]
he has the same marketing team as Tiesto has. Ferry, Carl Cox, and some others…[/quote]
exactly!! you just know the ones that do! it’s like they explode on the scene.
[quote]UnitedVision (05/04/2011)[hr][quote]willidaniel (05/04/2011)[hr][quote]TheAnt (05/04/2011)[hr][quote]willidaniel (05/04/2011)[hr][quote]
no question that Guetta is getting mad help. i mean i never heard of the guy until all the sudden he’s considered one of the best dj’s in the world just like that!!
seemed so quick!! it’s all about the marketing!!
Guetta proved that to me more than anyone!![/quote]
What? When did you hear about David Guetta? Just a little more love came out 10 years ago, and he was DJing before that, I wouldn’t exactly call that over night.[/quote]
just to the degree of how big he’s gotten. he’s marketing team is ace!! heard plenty more producers/dj that i thought were a lot better than guetta in my opinion that haven’t come close to his popularity right now. and probably never will. but hey that’s the nature of this business.[/quote]
he has the same marketing team as Tiesto has. Ferry, Carl Cox, and some others…
even if his tracks aren’t the “greatest” we have ever heard… (they ain’t. we’ve all heard better)… but they are so catchy & commercial that radio stations love to play em.
guetta is actively trying to bridge the gap from house music → Billboard top 100.
[/quote]
that’s why you won’t see me at guetta show!! way to commercial for me!!!
[quote]UnitedVision (05/04/2011)[hr][quote]TheAnt (05/04/2011)[hr][quote]willidaniel (05/04/2011)[hr][quote]
no question that Guetta is getting mad help. i mean i never heard of the guy until all the sudden he’s considered one of the best dj’s in the world just like that!!
seemed so quick!! it’s all about the marketing!!
Guetta proved that to me more than anyone!![/quote]
What? When did you hear about David Guetta? Just a little more love came out 10 years ago, and he was DJing before that, I wouldn’t exactly call that over night.[/quote]
lol. willi is a trance head so we gotta cut him a little slack in the house department 
2 his point… yeah great marketing helps. but really its not even that.
Guetta’s popularity is directly related to 1 thing. Commercially Viable Music.
All of Guetta’s music is commercial music. Stuff you hear on the radio. ie Love is Gone.
All of the remixes he does are with HUGE commercial pop artists.
If you make commercial music & collaborate with pop stars… ur gunna get noticed. fact.
[/quote]
+1
exactly right!!:D:D
[quote]UnitedVision (05/04/2011)[hr]Guetta’s popularity is directly related to 1 thing. Commercially Viable Music.
All of Guetta’s music is commercial music. Stuff you hear on the radio. ie Love is Gone.
All of the remixes he does are with HUGE commercial pop artists.
If you make commercial music & collaborate with pop stars… ur gunna get noticed. fact.
[/quote]
Yes, this is exactly right.
the thing is if someone offered you good money to write tracks for them you would do it right? I know I would
[quote]gofunk (05/04/2011)[hr]the thing is if someone offered you good money to write tracks for them you would do it right? I know I would[/quote]
could you write a track and have their name on the track you wrote? for money?
could you paint a picture and put someone else’s name at the bottom? for money?
seems like selling out but i don’t know. i guess it depends on how bad you need the money and not how bad you need the recognition
that’s actually a deceit debate.
depends how much money 
no different than 90% of commercial music… the front people are normally just the performers.
even kings of leon didn’t write or producer their last album… all they are doing is standing on stage and playing covers. I personally don’t give a monkeys as long as it entertains.
[quote]phil johnston (05/04/2011)[hr]no different than 90% of commercial music… the front people are normally just the performers.
even kings of leon didn’t write or producer their last album… all they are doing is standing on stage and playing covers. I personally don’t give a monkeys as long as it entertains.
[/quote]
+1
[quote]phil johnston (05/04/2011)[hr]no different than 90% of commercial music… the front people are normally just the performers.
even kings of leon didn’t write or producer their last album… all they are doing is standing on stage and playing covers. I personally don’t give a monkeys as long as it entertains.
yea but what if you were a fan kings of leon and you found out that your favorite rock band doesn’t write any of their stuff?
i would be devastated as kid if i found out that depeche mode didn’t write their tracks
i then would be comparing my favorite band to new kids on the block or an nsync!!:w00t:
I took a film scoring orchestration course through UCLA and that’s how most of Hollywood works–you have to work as a ghost orchestrator for a year before you build a rep and are trusted to work on a film–not sure if I agree with that approach since it means taking a vow of poverty for a year.
I guess my issue would be if they weren’t paying decently then it’s kinda like sweatshop work.
If you’re an Artist making non-derivative work then I think you should protect your intellectual property–and don’t quit that day job :-p
[quote]lattetown (06/04/2011)[hr]I took a film scoring orchestration course through UCLA and that’s how most of Hollywood works–you have to work as a ghost orchestrator for a year before you build a rep and are trusted to work on a film–not sure if I agree with that approach since it means taking a vow of poverty for a year.
I guess my issue would be if they weren’t paying decently then it’s kinda like sweatshop work.
If you’re an Artist making non-derivative work then I think you should protect your intellectual property–and don’t quit that day job :-p[/quote]
i heard that in the early days of motown it was i like that too. musicians for hire. they would make some riffs write music, that sort of stuff. come to find out the musicians were really talented and came up with some really popular tunes back in the day and never really got compensated it other than some small basic musician pay.
We should defo round them all up and stone them to death…
…It’s DANCE music, have some respect !
[quote]seanl (06/04/2011)[hr]We should defo round them all up and stone them to death…
…It’s DANCE music, have some respect !
[/quote]
Nothing like a good stoning
[hr]
If you’re uncapable of making your own music because you don’t have ideas of your own then clearly you’re in the wrong business.
Why would you want to be a musician if you arn’t musical?? It makes no sense to me, it’s like lying to yourself and denying yourself the ability to let yourself shine in what ever it is that you’re actually good at, which obviously isn’t the music business.
I wouldn’t go around telling people I was a pilot just because I pay for airline flights.
I’m a footballer, well actually i just pay a ghost footballer to do the footballing for me whilst i sit on the sidelines and take all the credit.
Ok so here’s two questions
- Are producers musicians?
- Define what a producer is/does without using the word produce.
I think it might help in this debate as we’re talking abut ghost producers.
I’ll start
Musician
One who composes conducts or performs music especially instrumental
Now, many performers would argue that we producers who cannot play/perform to a certain minimum standard are not musicians
Producer
Taken from someone else but I think it’s a decent description…
A music producer is to music what a director is to film. The producer has an overall idea in his/her head what the ending sound of a project will be. He guides the musicians during rehearsals, recording how to play to get to his vision at the end. He also is involved in the song arrangement and the mixing of the project. Certain music producers have been known for their talent in getting a certain sound out of artists that play to the artists’ strengths. Mutt Lange was famous for doing that with bands like AC/DC and Def Leppard. Quincy Jones was famous for producing records for the likes of Michael Jackson. The producer starts with the artists and the songs and is charged with completing a finished product. Much like the way a film director begins with actors and a script.
Now you could easily substitute “VSTs/Synths” for “musicians” within that definition. But it doesn’t say that he/she has to do any of that themselves with their own hands - it’s about a vision for what’s needed and directing one or more people how to get there.
Agreed that the person(s) you’re directing could be yourself or others. But it doesn’t HAVE to be yourself.
I consider myself a musician and an engineer, i have ideas in my head, i make and create them, i make music: melodies, chords, basslines. I’m a one man band.
That to me is what a producer is, someone who makes and writes music. Someone who makes and writes music, what other word would determine that? Ohh that’s right… musicians.
[quote]willidaniel (05/04/2011)[hr][quote]phil johnston (05/04/2011)[hr]no different than 90% of commercial music… the front people are normally just the performers.
even kings of leon didn’t write or producer their last album… all they are doing is standing on stage and playing covers. I personally don’t give a monkeys as long as it entertains.
yea but what if you were a fan kings of leon and you found out that your favorite rock band doesn’t write any of their stuff?
i would be devastated as kid if i found out that depeche mode didn’t write their tracks
i then would be comparing my favorite band to new kids on the block or an nsync!!:w00t:
[/quote]
@willie exactly! thats what I was sayin earlier in my post. it’s the fans that get screwed from stuff like this. Finding out that your favorite band has been cheating you is a pretty heart breaking experience.
@ phil i had no idea about Kings of Leon not writing their stuff. my friend is a huge fan of their music. I can pretty much guarantee when I tell him they didnt write their stuff he’s not gunna be as big of a fan anymore. thats for sure.
@ jon. you are on the money about the differences between producer & musician… but the thing is some of us producers are most certainly musicians. My brother and I talk about this quite often, because we both play multiple instruments. Either 1 of us could sit in with a jazz band or a blues band and rock out till our hearts content. the point is… as a musician you have a disdain for ANYBODY who can’t write or play music but pays somebody else to do all the hardwork, bypassing all the years of practice, dedication and ambition it takes to become a professional musician/producer. Or heck even all the time it takes just to be a decent player. People that do this are basically saying that all the time that you put in to your skills as a musician mean nothing, because they have the money to pay somebody to do it.
In the end the industry is what it is. No 1 person is going to change the name of the game. The only thing that matters on our part is what we do with our own talent. I’ll be the first person to say that if the money was right I’d engineer,produce, whatever a track for somebody. Pay me 10 million I’ll write you a country western song or a polka jam. I could care less if your gunna pay me a ridiculous amount of money. Look at David Guetta. Most of us can’t stand the commercial cheese he puts out. But none of us would be turning down the paychecks he gets. It’s catch 22.
But when it comes to dance music. “producers” that have no talent will not rise 2 the top.
here is a good article on the topic of rock bands & co-writing…
http://fractionsofone.com/in-depth/is-co-writing-a-con/
[quote]UnitedVision (06/04/2011)[hr][quote]willidaniel (05/04/2011)[hr][quote]phil johnston (05/04/2011)[hr]no different than 90% of commercial music… the front people are normally just the performers.
even kings of leon didn’t write or producer their last album… all they are doing is standing on stage and playing covers. I personally don’t give a monkeys as long as it entertains.
yea but what if you were a fan kings of leon and you found out that your favorite rock band doesn’t write any of their stuff?
i would be devastated as kid if i found out that depeche mode didn’t write their tracks
i then would be comparing my favorite band to new kids on the block or an nsync!!:w00t:
[/quote]
@willie exactly! thats what I was sayin earlier in my post. it’s the fans that get screwed from stuff like this. Finding out that your favorite band has been cheating you is a pretty heart breaking experience.
@ phil i had no idea about Kings of Leon not writing their stuff. my friend is a huge fan of their music. I can pretty much guarantee when I tell him they didnt write their stuff he’s not gunna be as big of a fan anymore. thats for sure.
@ jon. you are on the money about the differences between producer & musician… but the thing is some of us producers are most certainly musicians. My brother and I talk about this quite often, because we both play multiple instruments. Either 1 of us could sit in with a jazz band or a blues band and rock out till our hearts content. the point is… as a musician you have a disdain for ANYBODY who can’t write or play music but pays somebody else to do all the hardwork, bypassing all the years of practice, dedication and ambition it takes to become a professional musician/producer. Or heck even all the time it takes just to be a decent player. People that do this are basically saying that all the time that you put in to your skills as a musician mean nothing, because they have the money to pay somebody to do it.
In the end the industry is what it is. No 1 person is going to change the name of the game. The only thing that matters on our part is what we do with our own talent. I’ll be the first person to say that if the money was right I’d engineer,produce, whatever a track for somebody. Pay me 10 million I’ll write you a country western song or a polka jam. I could care less if your gunna pay me a ridiculous amount of money. Look at David Guetta. Most of us can’t stand the commercial cheese he puts out. But none of us would be turning down the paychecks he gets. It’s catch 22.
But when it comes to dance music. “producers” that have no talent will not rise 2 the top.
here is a good article on the topic of rock bands & co-writing…
http://fractionsofone.com/in-depth/is-co-writing-a-con/[/quote]
well said UV!
this topic kind pulls at your morals a little bit! your right we certainly wouldn’t say no to Guetta type cash, but on the same token it does have a sell out type feel to it.