That is a very interesting observation.nbsp; It becomes even more interesting when you look at it from the “old” perspective of the vinyl-days.nbsp;PLet’s do some simplified math first:/PPLet’s say you buy (or have some african dude buy it for you, innbsp;a setup nextnbsp;tonbsp;his “you’ve won 10 million dollars in Kenian Lottery”-bussines) 1.000 downloads of your track at the starting rate of Beatport which is (VAT incl.) 2,51 €.nbsp; That would cost you 2.510,00 €nbsp;(plus a small percentage if you use the dummy-buyer) /PP50% of that revenue stays at beatport.nbsp; So that leaves 1.075 € that go the label which splits it up again, leaving (let’s say 50% to keep the math easy) 537,50 € that flows back to the artist.nbsp; Making the actual investment 1.612,50 € (of course it even gets lower if you own the label yourself).nbsp; /PPWhat strikes me is that this is around the same one time investment you had to do to getnbsp;1000 vinyl pressed and shippednbsp;without even knowing for sure it would make any good sales.nbsp; I don’t know where 1.000 sales in a week would get your release, but I figure that same amount of money now buys an instant top 10 spot in a genre chart and lots of visibility.nbsp;/PPIt’s no longernbsp;the question “is it happening?” but rather “on what scale?” and what kind of investment would take you to the nr.1 spot.nbsp; /PPPersonally, I see this as a confirmation of what I’ve been doing for a long time:nbsp; don’t buy the Beatport top 10’s!nbsp; Not only do you end up spinning the same tunes as everyone, it’s far from "guaranteed quality stuff"PP.S. Phill, if you’re gonna have a go at it: I’m in! 
A couple of things that i want to add here:PFirstly, i totally agree with what you have said here Nicowuyts:/PP[quote]nicowuyts (13/03/2013)[hr]Personally, I see this as a confirmation of what I’ve been doing for a long time:nbsp; don’t buy the Beatport top 10’s!nbsp; Not only do you end up spinning the same tunes as everyone, it’s far from “guaranteed quality stuff”[/quote]/PPThe only thing i would say in response to this, is thatnbsp;there are still some very, very good tracks in the Beatport Top 10 / Top 100. So if you love dance music and care about supporting ‘proper’ artists, i think it is right to show alot of caution with regards to buying any tracks that are in the Beatport charts, but at the same time, there are always going to be tracks that have a high placing in the charts, without any funny business going on, i.e. they are there purely on merit./PPPersonally, i don’t believe in not buying and playing out tracks just because they are being caned by everyone else, or because they may have been ghost-written or the artist may have bought himself a better position in the Beatport charts etc. A great track is a great track no matter what, and i feel that should be the most important thing, ALWAYS, when choosing what tracks to buy and play out./PPI say this, as i do feel that some people get a little too caught up in the whole thing about protesting against the over-commercialisation of dance music, and i think sometimes people can forget that it should still always be about the music, and if it’s a great track it doesn’t really matter to me where it came from, or who made it etc!/PPSecondly, not sure how serious you were Phil about doing the experiment?, But it would be a really interesting and valuable thing to do, and if we were going to do something like this, i would like to see it taken a stage further, where you create a kind of ‘fake’ artist and you try and find a way where you can guage the kind of gigs that someone might typically be able to obtain, simply from managing to get a track in the Beatport Top 10 under their name?/PPThe reason i think this would be vital to such an experiment - is surely this is the main reason why artists are buying their way into the Beatport Charts, right - to obtain paid gigs?/PPAs they are clearly spending their own money buying the tracks, so there has to be some tangible revenue that they know they will get back from buying their own tracks, which is the gigs that they obtain on the back of it./PPSo a really interesting experiment, would be something like - create a ‘fake’ artist, release a really good track under the fake artist name/profile, get loads of Sonic Academy members to buy the track, so that it gets in the Beatport Top 10, see how much revenue sales of the track on Beatport generates, but then also see how much interest there is from promoters in booking the fake artist, simply on the basis that the promoter sees that they have a Beatport Top 10 track!/PPNow that would be interesting! And thinking quickly about the outlay, it wouldn’t cost much at all, if loads of Sonic Academy members just bought one copy of the track at £1.49 each or something./PPI am thinking the only tricky part, might be getting the track onto Beatport in the first place though, through a label that have been accepted bynbsp;Beatport? Isn’t it notoriously difficult to get your stuff on Beatport?
And if you gave the fake artist some ridiculous marketing and PR bull**** quirk, say something similar to always wearing a pathetic massive mouse head, then each one of the Sonic Academy members who was involved in the experiment, could take one turn each DJ-ing at one of the gigs, probably at some festival playing to thousands of people. I’m sure with the way things are right now, no-one would even notice that it’s a different person under the mask each time!/PPSo each of the Sonic Academy members can experience playing in front of thousands, the glamour and prestige, and also getting the girls after the gig of course (although you’ll have to leave the mask on which would be slightly awkward, but do-able)!!!
[quote]phil johnston (13/03/2013)[hr]buying your own tracks to get in to the beatport charts is bound to be happening.br
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maybe we should do a sonic academy experiment… we could make a decent track and buy our way in to the top 10 see what sort of revenue can be generated.[/quote]br
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Yes do that, Do something similar to the Avicci X project were people send in Melodies,Drums, bass etc. then you and mr Chris just make an awesome track from that. That would be awesome
David,Pof course it’s about good music in the first place. :)nbsp; But I’m a bit old fashioned on this topic: if you’re really committed to being a good dj in your genre, you should have had that track allready in your setlist long before it became a top 10 seller.nbsp; I know that in the days of vinyl this was “easier” to achieve because it would take a record a few weeks (not to say months) before it would make a break through, while now in the digital era this “incubation” period is significantly shorter.nbsp; It was all part of the game: knowing which track could work out and which wouldn’t, and being the first of your mates to pick it up (making them green with envy 
)nbsp; Trying to play stuff that no one else has gotnbsp;is stillnbsp;a mindset that isnbsp;present in truly great dj’s like Carl Cox, Richie Hawtin,… and many others (not that I aspire of putting myself in the same row, I can only dream about that and be true to the principles that I had when I started dj-ing)/PPBut I’m running off topic here.nbsp; /PPI think it might be interesting too to involve a journalist or something like that.nbsp;nbsp;It could work in both ways: he gets a good story about how the modern music bussiness works, and on the other side: whoever sets up the investigation might end up getting “caught” (and in the case of S.A. or some of it’s members maybe even get an established reputation damaged), and can then sincerely say it wasn’t for the money but for the sake of investigationnbsp;and “informing the masses” :)/PPI would also be interested to know to what level Beatport andnbsp;similar sites are awarenbsp;of this sort of marketing (which I’m sure they are) and if they try to fight it (or at least try to have a minimum effect of it in their charts) or maybe even encourage or facilitate labels and pr-companies to perform this kind of market-manipulations. (Forgive me this brainstorming part, I’m not meaning to accuse beatport or anyone else, but I think the question is legit given the relatively small amount of money you would need to “sell” 1000 copies whether it’s with or withoutnbsp;those sitesnbsp;involved in it.)
Yes, i do agree with what you are saying A class=SmlBoldLinks id=_ctl2_ctlTopic_ctlPanelBar_ctlTopicsRepeater__ctl8_smAuthorName #111;nmouseover=“#119;indow.status = #119;indow.location;return true;” title=“View nicowuyts’s Profile…” #111;nmouseout=“#119;indow.status=‘’;return true;” href="void(‘’);"nicowuyts/A./PPI think it is a really good mindset to have, to try and get hold of tracks that not many people have, and that are really difficult to find etc./PPThe only thing i would say, is that i think you have to factor in that in the old days of vinyl, it was probably a little easier to own and play out tracks that lots of other people didn’t have, as once the finite number of copies of that track had been sold on vinyl, no one else could get a copy, until such time as the label re-pressed some more vinyl copies. Therefore if you worked hard to find a copy of a hard to get track, it was more difficult back then for other people to get a copy once they became aware of it./PPThese days of course, there are infinate copies of each track available, so i think it becomes at least a little harder to find and play tracks that not many other people are playing. Let’s face it - if a track really is amazingly mind-blowing these days, it won’t take long at all before people are all over it, and before a hell of a lot of people have bought it or downloaded it for free and can play it./PPWith regards to your comments on Beatport - although i don’t know this for sure, personally i am certain that Beatport are well aware of exactly what is going on, i would even suggest that Beatport actively promote this kind of activity, in order to increase overall sales./PPDon’t forget - the more copies of each track are sold, the more money Beatport makes as a business. /PPThe only counter-arguement to this, might be that Beatport care more about things like artistic integrity, and the overall quality of the tracks in their charts and on their site, than they do about making money./PPBut looking at some of the complete and utter garbage that ‘grace’ the Beatport charts, this is clearly not the case./PPAnyone with even remotely decent taste in music, can clearly see that lots of very inferior and sub-standard tracks chart very highly on Beatport - So clearly Beatport do not care that much about the overall quality of tracks in their charts!
Didn’t know about the Avicii Loves X project before until you just mentioned it!/PPJust had a look on the website, interesting concept but there were a few things that made me think that it’s just another big PR and Marketing exercise for Avicii to obtain a load of Facebook contacts, likes and email addresses etc. Shame!
Beatport, iTunes, and any digital download domain is a business. It would counter intuitive to regulate tracks that should be in the top 100 ( C’mon what are we communists here!) If the song gets buys weather its from actual djs or us SA buying our own tracks, i dont see what thats proving. They make their money is thier primary goal, doesn’t matter if its the bestnbsp;track in the worldnbsp;or PSY making stupid crap. nbsp;We all know that you will get gigs from sales, likes, etc. To measure the monetary valuenbsp;you receivenbsp;compared to beatport sales is not a apples to apples comparison. Its not like you can say " Ok, I have 3 tracks in top 10, grossed 20k and nownbsp;I will make 10K in gigs. Doesn’t work like that. But yes, i do agree with everyone above that increasing awareness and and buying own tracks (just like buying likes to be #1 dj Poll ( Guetta LOL) is great and braging right.
[quote]nicowuyts (13/03/2013)[hr]David,br
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of course it’s about good music in the first place. 
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Is it? I hear crap on a weekly basis in the Top10
[quote]Roben (14/03/2013)[hr][quote]nicowuyts (13/03/2013)[hr]David,BRBRof course it’s about good music in the first place. [/quote]BRBRIs it? I hear crap on a weekly basis in the Top10[/quote]/PPLikewise… that’s why I said: don’t buy the top 10’s.nbsp; For various reasons, but the one you mentioned is obviously the most important
Phil, I’m in. But why make a “fake artist” when we can just make a SA collab and push it ourselves? We can choose a genre or two a month, work on a track and put it on soundcloud for review, then we vote on which we like the best and send it up. Everyone buys a copy and then we see what happens. br
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If nothing else, making the top 10 would be great advertisement for SA.br
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[quote]djstoli (13/03/2013)[hr]Beatport, iTunes, and any digital download domain is a business. It would counter intuitive to regulate tracks that should be in the top 100 ( C’mon what are we communists here!) If the song gets buys weather its from actual djs or us SA buying our own tracks, i dont see what thats proving. They make their money is thier primary goal, doesn’t matter if its the besttrack in the worldor PSY making stupid crap. We all know that you will get gigs from sales, likes, etc. To measure the monetary valueyou receivecompared to beatport sales is not a apples to apples comparison. Its not like you can say " Ok, I have 3 tracks in top 10, grossed 20k and nowI will make 10K in gigs. Doesn’t work like that. But yes, i do agree with everyone above that increasing awareness and and buying own tracks (just like buying likes to be #1 dj Poll ( Guetta LOL) is great and braging right.[/quote]br
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The whole industry has a modicum of “emperors new cloths” about it. PR and marketing can shift genres make up and comers famous over night i.e Zedd etc. br
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You still have to have a quality product but if you dont combine it with all the other stuff you wont get as far obviously.br
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what i would be interested in is what different types of marketing impacts sales and if you can really speculate to accumulate with “decent” product.br
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like does spending 1k on PR adwords etc get you more sales than buying 1k of your own tracks?
I was under the impression that, at least as far as commercially-driven artists are concerned,nbsp;getting a track in the Beatport charts was the be-all and end-all of everything these days?/PPI am still really interested to get some idea from someone who knows - how are promotors finding and choosing the artists that they book these days, in the main?/PPDoes it even have anything to do with who’s riding high in the Beatport charts?/PPOr do the agents of the DJ’s/Producers contact the promotors these days and sell their artists to them, rather than the other way around?
[quote]phil johnston (14/03/2013)[hr]The whole industry has a modicum of “emperors new cloths” about it. PR and marketing can shift genres make up and comers famous over night i.e Zedd etc. br
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You still have to have a quality product but if you dont combine it with all the other stuff you wont get as far obviously.br
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what i would be interested in is what different types of marketing impacts sales and if you can really speculate to accumulate with “decent” product.br
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like does spending 1k on PR adwords etc get you more sales than buying 1k of your own tracks?[/quote]br
Why else would Skrillex sweep the grammy’s 2 years in a row?br
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(sorry to any dubstep fans/producers)
[quote]phil johnston (14/03/2013)[hr]br
like does spending 1k on PR adwords etc get you more sales than buying 1k of your own tracks?[/quote]br
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Great Q.br
Between us all we know a fair few high charting artists, perhaps we could just… I know this is a crazy idea… ask them? 
I thought I might add this here, because it kind of confirms what we’ve been discussing here…PThere’s a beatport client survey going on right now and it features the following question (to be rated from ‘not at all important’ to ‘extremely important’):/PP"An option to pay to have my music featured"/PPThere you have it… The “if”-question is answered, now it’s a question of “how much to get what”…
Since we home school our kids we tend to get a lot of leeway when it comes to going to companies and asking for interviews/tours. With Beatport being here in town (I’m now living in Denver again) my kids have expressed interest in touring that company and I’d like to check it out for myself so I have my kids compiling a list of questions to present to them and when they’re done I’ll call them up and ask if we can do an interview/tour. br
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That said, I can ask what they do with clients who obviously boost their own sales to increase their status. Anyone have any other questions that you’d like me to ask?
ask them:br
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did they really just sell for 50 million quid… and can i have some.
A class=SmlBoldLinks id=_ctl2_ctlTopic_ctlPanelBar_ctlTopicsRepeater__ctl17_smAuthorName #111;nmouseover=“#119;indow.status = #119;indow.location;return true;” title=“View rental01’s Profile…” #111;nmouseout=“#119;indow.status=‘’;return true;” href="void(‘’);"rental01/Anbsp;- i’d be interested to know if they have a ‘mission statement’ and/or a strategy for the future, regarding how they see their role in the future of dance music that is paid for and not illegally downloaded./PPFor example - are they just going to carry on selling tracks and hope that enough people keep buying, or do they think that people purchasing tracks from them will decline in the future. So are they looking to get into other areas?/PPI notice they are starting to do more and more, like sell samples and midi packs etc.
I’ll add both of your questions to the list! Gotta wait for my son to compile his before I call them though.