[quote]jon_fisher (8/12/2009)[hr]to chris831 like roben and i have said its not that we are bothered that its not our genre because all of us that are saying no more house for the moment all produce house, we all feel that by not stepping out side the “house” umbrella we are losing out on a lot of info that could potentially make much better producers from us.
we know that almost everyone on this site loves house (me included) but if we never step away from house if even only for one of two tutorials we will never develop the skills and broaden tastes to produce future fresh music[/quote]
Well said, thats exactly what i was trying to say.
I’m not saying not to do something but surely it makes more sense on the site to cover the genres before diving deep into the sub sub styles and sounds???
That way at least every member and new member to the site has something to look into and work with for the time being. As it is, there is nothing for the tech trance, hard dance, techno or drum and bass people.
I’m just saying you wouldn’t run before you can walk, if the foundation of the mixture of genres are out, then by all means start getting out all the ‘this sound’ ‘that sound’ stuff. Otherwise we’ll be here forever going through different peoples sound before any other genre ever gets a look in… especially as music is always moving forward and fresh new tracks are always coming out.
i can see where raymondstar is coming from but i think saying people who dont have many posts are not contributing is wrong…surely people getting involved in whatever way they can is better than nothing a lot of novice’s wont have the no how to answer anything other than the htsl topics but as peoples knowledge grows the more they will contribute everyone has to start somewhere!!! i joined this site as i dont have the foggiest idea about production and the tutorials are great and easy to follow and i bet a lot of new subscribers are the same i contribute as much as i can but i actually dont have the knowledge to answer 98% of the posts on the forum although i do my best not just to answer the htsl topics in my opinion if you have subscribed you should be entitled to vote
can we not have just one big vote covering everything that has been asked for and give everyone two votes and then when the poll closes that is the running order then its fair:cool:
Yeah definately subscribers only should be allowed to vote but by all means everyone to the website should be allowed to see the votings.
It swings both ways, firstly subscribers feel like they have even more for their money and by being a subscriber their more valued. And secondly, only those that contribute to the site should have a say what tutorials THEY ARE PAYING FOR should come out.
ie: if you’re not paying for subscription it’s not like you can see the tutorials anyways so whats the point in being able to vote?
[quote]roben (8/12/2009)[hr][quote]jon_fisher (8/12/2009)[hr]to chris831 like roben and i have said its not that we are bothered that its not our genre because all of us that are saying no more house for the moment all produce house, we all feel that by not stepping out side the “house” umbrella we are losing out on a lot of info that could potentially make much better producers from us.
we know that almost everyone on this site loves house (me included) but if we never step away from house if even only for one of two tutorials we will never develop the skills and broaden tastes to produce future fresh music[/quote]
Well said, thats exactly what i was trying to say.
I’m not saying not to do something but surely it makes more sense on the site to cover the genres before diving deep into the sub sub styles and sounds???
That way at least every member and new member to the site has something to look into and work with for the time being. As it is, there is nothing for the tech trance, hard dance, techno or drum and bass people.
I’m just saying you wouldn’t run before you can walk, if the foundation of the mixture of genres are out, then by all means start getting out all the ‘this sound’ ‘that sound’ stuff. Otherwise we’ll be here forever going through different peoples sound before any other genre ever gets a look in… especially as music is always moving forward and fresh new tracks are always coming out.[/quote]
In theory i would agree with having a basic htsl for different styles but even then how do we decide on what these different styles are to cover anyway,what if i want an industrial breakcore hstl does that go in or is it only more major styles and if thats the case then its back to a popularity contest again.Which is why my point was the vote of the entire group was the only fair and democratic way to work this out not people using the term ‘we’ when they actually mean me or some people who think like me.
Anyway maybe we could add in elements to the vote to make it more widespread like if a genre comes up one month then it isn’t in the next poll at least eg minimal/tech this time.Also perhaps say once a month sonic could just add a genre they felt in their opinon would help their site in general appeal to more people,which they seem to be doing anyway with the forthcoming drum and bass htsl.
[quote]roben (8/12/2009)[hr]Yeah definately subscribers only should be allowed to vote but by all means everyone to the website should be allowed to see the votings.
It swings both ways, firstly subscribers feel like they have even more for their money and by being a subscriber their more valued. And secondly, only those that contribute to the site should have a say what tutorials THEY ARE PAYING FOR should come out.
ie: if you’re not paying for subscription it’s not like you can see the tutorials anyways so whats the point in being able to vote?[/quote]
I’ve said it before but i totally agree with this,theres no way people who aren’t paying and therefore can’t see them for the moment anyway,should have any say in what people who currently are paying will watch next.
i think the best way to do this is that if the two or three winning genres are made to miss the next poll its the only way to be fair.
i know i’ve already said that hardcore and hardhouse would not be my first choice but it is my next choice, truth be known i can’t stand either genres but i still can’t understand why others on this forum wouldn’t want to learn the production techniques behind both.
Even though I produce house, I dont care much for minimal or drum and bass, there are things that you can pick up that will help you out in whatever you’re making. Its all about keeping it fresh and possibly learning something about another genre will help you out with your genre, keeping it fresh.
[quote]jon_fisher (8/12/2009)[hr]i think the best way to do this is that if the two or three winning genres are made to miss the next poll its the only way to be fair.
i know i’ve already said that hardcore and hardhouse would not be my first choice but it is my next choice, truth be known i can’t stand either genres but i still can’t understand why others on this forum wouldn’t want to learn the production techniques behind both.
[/quote]
What Jon said…
I would be happy if they just made videos that said this is what makes this genre different. Maybe have a clip of how it sounds. Then what I am most interested in is the arraignment. Like the tutorial showing how to arrange a real song. Like kick, hats and percussion for the first 8 bars then the baseline comes in, Then a breakdown at 64 for 8 bars or something like that helps me a lot. So far the Logic tutorial had a realistic length to it.
I hope this makes sense.
Little mini tutorials on the theory behind each genre. Why it sounds different and how long it usually is. Like some genres are 125 to 128 BPM and may be 120 to 150 bars in length and have one breakdown usually here. Something like that.
When people say fidget has already been done, I go what does that mean. Fidget has not been done. They have only looked at two dudes style of fidget. We are not looking at broad genres. We are looking at a particular person’s outlook on that genre. I hope this make sense, because it does not make sense to me when someone says we’ve already done fidget. Because when it comes down to it, one person’s style of fidget may not represent the whole genre. I’m not sure what style you are looking for, but if we did the style you wanted, I could understand how that one tutorial is not going to cover the whole style. I hope you get what I’m trying to say. Do not take this as an attack either. I love everyone on the forum.
Hey SA,
You wanna solve a lot of these problems. Get off ya arse and make that schedule that you’ve been promising for months outlining when and where stuff is coming. I may speak for myself, but it’s really annoying to kept being told, “next week, tech tip this week” repeatedly for the same thing that was supposed to come out a month ago. I’m not currently waiting on anything, but it seems that the other 1000 members are! So get a damn schedule out and quit yankin our chains! Knowledge is power, and if you provide us with at least a little bit of “when and where” knowledge, the SA world would be a lot better place. IT DOESN"T HAVE TO BE THIS DISORGANIZED GUYS! If you can’t get the tuts or the schedule out, you should stop telling us whats coming. Because if you tell me its on the way, I’m waiting for it with baited hook. So its a MAJOR disappointment to get it pushed back a week, much less a month. Flame away people, It’s just one man talkin.
Raymond
I vote for mnml, but I have to say that roben and co. have 100 % reason. It is good to learn of other styles.
Raymondsar - Hey man, I know you mean well and love this site like the rest of us, and maybe you don’t realise but your posts can come across really agressive sometimes. ie: that last post.
I know you well enough now from my time being on this board and i’m sure the S.A crew do too, and know that you’re just a very passionate individual with a lot of love, but for newbies to the site who don’t know, some of the things you say may come across pretty hostile you know? I just wanted to let you know from an outsiders perspective, I know a lot of times with messageboards and text is that things can be read in a different context to how it was meant by the writer due to lack of being able to show expression and tone behind the words.
Peace, love n respect dude 
[quote]samuelalbritton (8/12/2009)[hr]When people say fidget has already been done, I go what does that mean. Fidget has not been done. They have only looked at two dudes style of fidget. We are not looking at broad genres. We are looking at a particular person’s outlook on that genre. I hope this make sense, because it does not make sense to me when someone says we’ve already done fidget. Because when it comes down to it, one person’s style of fidget may not represent the whole genre. I’m not sure what style you are looking for, but if we did the style you wanted, I could understand how that one tutorial is not going to cover the whole style. I hope you get what I’m trying to say. Do not take this as an attack either. I love everyone on the forum.[/quote]
Yeah of course, i agree dude, but at least people who want to create ‘fidget’ - for example - have something to at least give them the go ahead with with similar tutorials already in the subscribers section, whether its the exact sound or not. Where as those that want to create dnb, techno, tech trance, etc, etc dont even have that as so far no tutorials that are even close to it have been created yet.
Yes there are different sounds, there are different sounds in all genres. What i’m saying is to have at least one tutorial on each major genre on the site first, this means that all members to the site have something to play with. Rather than - for example the Electro heads having 5 different tutorials teaching various different producer sounds, and the dnb heads having nothing.
here is another thing i thought of. sonic academy is 100% a business, no matter which way you look at it. im a business person for a living, so i know what running a business entails. it definitely requires deadlines and it requires a schedule or calendar of some sort. i love the work that SA puts out, but I agree that they are very disorganized. the bottom line here is that we pay for this website. we are the customer. we arent asking for alot here, but we all seem to have the same gripe. in business, you have to do the right thing for the customer so they are satisfied. i look at know that i get videos from the website (which is what i pay for), but other than that, I dont know what i get. there is a section of where SA will answer your questions quickly if you have one? BULLSHIZZLE! 99% of the time, it’s us, the SUBSCRIBERS, that answers each others questions, not the “Professionals”. Does that mean that everytime I answer a question in the subscribers section, I get paid or I get a credit on my account? I should (Jon, you have a free lifetime membership to the site! :laugh:).
Once again, i love the site, but this is looking more and more like the most disorganized business I have ever seen. have a sense of urgency! try to satisfy your members! the money you make from subscriptions and advertising has to be worth it! im getting more and more pissed as im writing this. there is alot of broken promises from when we signed up.
now, i am not saying that when it is time to renew, i would leave, but trust me, im not the only one feeling this way. it doesnt look good for the potential subscribers out there that their members are griping about the service. this is, after all, a service business. they have to provide something other then the videos to their subscribers, because trust me, i can get the videos that they post (and that I pay for) through other avenues, but I dont. i will remain faithful to sonic academy. please just do the right thing.:Whistling:
guys, its pretty obvious that there is quite a lot of hostility brewing up here.
Your main gripe is with the diversity of the tutorials and this came to a head over the past couple days.
i can CONFIRM that i am currently working on a Tech Trance tutorial as a direct result of this, apart from this i am also working on a Cubase 5 tutorial.
There is a Drum & Bass in Logic tutorial in its final stages and then the poll that sparked this still has to play out, and there is no reason why that poll cannot bring out something like the Nu Disco genre!
I personally am working round the clock to make sure your needs are fulfilled and the last thing i want is for our core audience to leave us because it is YOU guys that make this site what it is!
We are about to launch a recruitment drive to find producers to help us get more diverse content out to you and quicker than we currently are!
regarding subscriber support forums, when our users answer questions in the subscriber support that is great! i constantly monitor subscriber support and tech help. just look at my site visits! when i get the chance to answer i will do it and if someone has already answered it i will only chirp in if its incorrect but otherwise i love the fact that the community are helping each other out.
taking everything into consideration its obvious that we need a Subscriber section where we can have polls for subscribers only, multiple choices for poll answers and previous HTSL’s unavailable for certain polls. We know this now! We are still growing as a company and we aren’t setting out to purposely annoy our users, and obviously as we grow and these situations occur we will adapt and move on.
As for a release schedule, we do currently have one that we are working off. i will have a look this week at making this available on the website, but like i said we are currently looking to recruit more producers to make tutorials, and when we do, the schedule is likely to change dramatically.
please be under no illusion that we are just sitting on our hands at this end!
like i said i am working round the clock on the website and trying my best to answer all your questions in the forums, and keep the peace these days
the latest and greatest piece of work was to provide all of you guys with MUCH faster video streaming! and it was a very lengthy process but we feel very much worth it!
hope this settles some of your concerns and explains what has been going on behind the scenes at our end.
bry
Nice one Bryan! Good response. 
Its good to see the passion here… Main thing for everyone to do is to channel it into something positive.
A schedule would probably be the most transparent way of keeping everyone happy. Its a thing that goes hand in hand with Forums / Online Communities… Things change… The Plan needs to be adapted down the line somewhere to keep it on the same track as where the Users are headed. I’ve seen it on a couple of other Forums that I use. AND it always ends up being an improvement. You’ll always get a flare up every 20,000 miles or so. Its definitely healthy. Many companies have to actually spend €$£’s to get this type of infomation from their Customers.
I love this site & cant wait to see whats coming up, no matter what the Genre is! 
[quote]bryan spence (8/12/2009)[hr]guys, its pretty obvious that there is quite a lot of hostility brewing up here.[/quote]
Apologies if anything I said has come across this way, it wasn’t my intention.
[quote]bryan spence (8/12/2009)[hr]
please be under no illusion that we are just sitting on our hands at this end!
like i said i am working round the clock on the website and trying my best to answer all your questions in the forums, and keep the peace these days
bry[/quote]
I know this and believe me I do really value the work you guys put into this site, i only express views, thoughts and opinions because I care and i want to see the best for Sonic Academy and it’s members.
Thankyou mate for taking the time to read, comment and action our voice. Much respect.
Bry Thanks for clearing this up, i am very happy with what you have said
there is no intention for any damage to be done to either users or the SA Team and forum. we do value what you do, you guys are great and maybe its easy for these types of threads to become aggressive but that’s just forums in general lol.
it’s also good to know that you all read and participate in the forum discussions to improve what is already good. we know that its next to impossible to run this sort of thing to perfection.
anyway thanks for the info and can’t wait for the tutorials.
Agreed Roben and Bry,
What I say can and will come across as very blunt and to the point. It’s part of being an arsehole American! None the less, I just want all of you to know, and I mean ALL. That I am very much for helping in any way that I can. and have no angst towards anyone, period. I think it is an incredibly good idea for SA to be recruiting at this point. I think that what has happened over the past couple of months is that the site has grown exponentially and you guys are getting “a little too big for your britches”. Bringing on more people to help you with tutorials and even daily tasks will improve the quality of this site greatly. As your business and site grow, so needs your staff. I think that the majority of the problem as stated before, is that you guys just simply don’t have enough hours in the day to accomplish everything… Another thing that might help too, is to designate someone to answer posts. I’ve found it frustrating in the past, and Roben will attest, we were at each others throats for a good week before someone from SA intervened. This is clearly a sign of understaffing, and concludes my point. More people means more content, and a quicker response time. The quicker SA responds, the less time there is for things to get out of hand. Like in the past, and with this thread. If any of you have anything you would like to address to me, or even just questions, technical or not. Feel free to shoot me a PM or an Email. My box is open, and I’ll help where I can. Much love to you guys and the SA crew! There’s nothing easy about running a business, especially a startup!
Respect,
Raymond
[quote]raymondsar (8/12/2009)[hr]Agreed Roben and Bry,
What I say can and will come across as very blunt and to the point. It’s part of being an arsehole American! None the less, I just want all of you to know, and I mean ALL. That I am very much for helping in any way that I can. and have no angst towards anyone, period. I think it is an incredibly good idea for SA to be recruiting at this point. I think that what has happened over the past couple of months is that the site has grown exponentially and you guys are getting “a little too big for your britches”. Bringing on more people to help you with tutorials and even daily tasks will improve the quality of this site greatly. As your business and site grow, so needs your staff. I think that the majority of the problem as stated before, is that you guys just simply don’t have enough hours in the day to accomplish everything… Another thing that might help too, is to designate someone to answer posts. I’ve found it frustrating in the past, and Roben will attest, we were at each others throats for a good week before someone from SA intervened. This is clearly a sign of understaffing, and concludes my point. More people means more content, and a quicker response time. The quicker SA responds, the less time there is for things to get out of hand. Like in the past, and with this thread. If any of you have anything you would like to address to me, or even just questions, technical or not. Feel free to shoot me a PM or an Email. My box is open, and I’ll help where I can. Much love to you guys and the SA crew! There’s nothing easy about running a business, especially a startup!
Respect,
Raymond[/quote]
Im an American and I’m not an arsehole! 
I agree with all of the above. I too agree that as you get bigger, you need to staff your company. Thank you for the response though Bry. We do love all you guys, but its just tough love. I think myself, Jon, Roben, Raymone, and a few of the other staple members love this site and want to be involved in the growth. We just want the best for us and the site and we will do whatever to get our opinions across and help you grow. I have ran businesses and worked on business models before and it is not easy. I too am here for any help I can.
One Love!