Hey I just wanted to post this in regard to the other tip posted on arrangement and structure. My advise is when you arrangr you make sure each section of your track is tight and you pay every bit of attention to small details instead of just rushing along to get your track done. Even if you have to spend a full day just on your intro its so essential to get everything moving. Transitions from on section to another is also a very important part of your tracks and should be treated with respect and care.
[quote]jjdejong0 (14/08/2011)[hr]Hey I just wanted to post this in regard to the other tip posted on arrangement and structure. My advise is when you arrangr you make sure each section of your track is tight and you pay every bit of attention to small details instead of just rushing along to get your track done. Even if you have to spend a full day just on your intro its so essential to get everything moving. Transitions from on section to another is also a very important part of your tracks and should be treated with respect and care.[/quote]
first!!! 
(Jan is Kim)
Last! 
[quote]jjdejong0 (14/08/2011)[hr]Hey I just wanted to post this in regard to the other tip posted on arrangement and structure. My advise is when you arrangr you make sure each section of your track is tight and you pay every bit of attention to small details instead of just rushing along to get your track done. Even if you have to spend a full day just on your intro its so essential to get everything moving. Transitions from on section to another is also a very important part of your tracks and should be treated with respect and care.[/quote]
Depends on what you’re making mate. If it’s good old fashioned hard techno, you should have your sheet down pretty fast, then it’s time to polish it all up.
To be honest, I’ll only sit down and spend a long time doing a track if I’m enjoying it, if I’m not getting anywhere with it… I’ll just start a fresh and make something else then maybe come back to it later (probably not).
Yes I agree it’s about getting it all sounding tight but at the same time, less is more anyway. If you keep banging out tracks you’re gonna get better a lot faster rather than trying to get that one track perfect because you become more and more familiar with everything that needs to be done. What you’re saying takes a long time to get to as not everybody knows where their sound is going wrong or lacking. I say just keep banging them out and experimenting to find what works. No point getting hung about to get stuff perfect, you’re just going to find yourself frustrated and wasting time tbh.
[quote]saulable (15/08/2011)[hr][quote]jjdejong0 (14/08/2011)[hr]Hey I just wanted to post this in regard to the other tip posted on arrangement and structure. My advise is when you arrangr you make sure each section of your track is tight and you pay every bit of attention to small details instead of just rushing along to get your track done. Even if you have to spend a full day just on your intro its so essential to get everything moving. Transitions from on section to another is also a very important part of your tracks and should be treated with respect and care.[/quote]
Depends on what you’re making mate. If it’s good old fashioned hard techno, you should have your sheet down pretty fast, then it’s time to polish it all up.
To be honest, I’ll only sit down and spend a long time doing a track if I’m enjoying it, if I’m not getting anywhere with it… I’ll just start a fresh and make something else then maybe come back to it later (probably not).
Yes I agree it’s about getting it all sounding tight but at the same time, less is more anyway. If you keep banging out tracks you’re gonna get better a lot faster rather than trying to get that one track perfect because you become more and more familiar with everything that needs to be done. What you’re saying takes a long time to get to as not everybody knows where their sound is going wrong or lacking. I say just keep banging them out and experimenting to find what works. No point getting hung about to get stuff perfect, you’re just going to find yourself frustrated and wasting time tbh.[/quote]
good point man . I have a friend who is a Sound Engineer and wants to release his Music on on Tool Room. since 2 years he tried to make the perfect track to send them. but still never manage to be happy or finish his projects. he have the knowledge. but he keeps hitting his head with trying to make the top hit track.
this comes to the point where just creativity takes just practice. so i agree with your statement
good points are given. I think for me it is also about getting tracks finished. That is how i keep myself motivated. I find myself still in a learning phase and i would like to get signed once but it is not my first priority now… I’d like to be a master at my equipment now and in the process create nice stuff… When i have something really nice i try to get it as excellent as possible…
I haven’t found the right formula for me yet. I’m fairly with how I’m getting on with other sides of production … but this f’ing arranging!!! Get’s on my t1ts! Hopefully when I find a method that just falls into place I’ll start enjoying it again!
I know I’ve mentioned about a tutorial just based around arrangement before … but I don’t know anyone who doesn’t struggle with it. I know there are arrangement sections in other step by step genre tutorials, but I think a collection of hints and tips about different ways to approach arrangement and the science behind it so to speak would be a nice idea.
I know what you mean Gav. I think for me it’s two things - the intro plus initial build AND good transitions.
It would be good to have a longer tutorial on these two elements. Lots of risers, faders, up and downsweeps, pitches, falls, etc. Plus, how to edit elements of tracks for transitions - auto filters, EQ, repeats, etc.
I dont agree at all. You shouldnt have the mentality of im gonna bang out 20 tracks this week. Also once you get into the habbits of getting everything as perfect as possible, its only natural that you start to finish tracks faster. Trust me on this, also its all well and good saying less is more but where does it say that making sure each part of your track is amZing means adding more stuff?
[quote]jjdejong0 (15/08/2011)[hr]I dont agree at all. You shouldnt have the mentality of im gonna bang out 20 tracks this week. Also once you get into the habbits of getting everything as perfect as possible, its only natural that you start to finish tracks faster. Trust me on this, also its all well and good saying less is more but where does it say that making sure each part of your track is amZing means adding more stuff?[/quote]
Wrong. How are you going to find out what actually makes perfection if you don’t experiment enough to find out? It might only just apply to that one track.
The whole point of studying things, is to gain a wide knowledge and understanding. With that you can go on to create and discover new things. Look at the history of house music man, it started with disco beats being experimented with. Even their recordings wern’t perfect- it couldn’t be they had to do it all live with what we deem now basic equipment. Up to umpteen people in the studio pushing sliders and twisting knobs. There was no such thing as automation. Trust me on this, art is never finished so wasting your time trying to get everything perfect is a waste of time in comparison to making lots of tunes and fluking the one that just sounds right without much work.
[quote]saulable (15/08/2011)[hr][quote]jjdejong0 (15/08/2011)[hr]I dont agree at all. You shouldnt have the mentality of im gonna bang out 20 tracks this week. Also once you get into the habbits of getting everything as perfect as possible, its only natural that you start to finish tracks faster. Trust me on this, also its all well and good saying less is more but where does it say that making sure each part of your track is amZing means adding more stuff?[/quote]
Wrong. How are you going to find out what actually makes perfection if you don’t experiment enough to find out? It might only just apply to that one track.
The whole point of studying things, is to gain a wide knowledge and understanding. With that you can go on to create and discover new things. Look at the history of house music man, it started with disco beats being experimented with. Even their recordings wern’t perfect- it couldn’t be they had to do it all live with what we deem now basic equipment. Up to umpteen people in the studio pushing sliders and twisting knobs. There was no such thing as automation. Trust me on this, art is never finished so wasting your time trying to get everything perfect is a waste of time in comparison to making lots of tunes and fluking the one that just sounds right without much work.[/quote]
100 % on this
and Jan you are wrong . Jan the Wrong hahaha
[quote]jjdejong0 (15/08/2011)[hr]I dont agree at all. You shouldnt have the mentality of im gonna bang out 20 tracks this week. Also once you get into the habbits of getting everything as perfect as possible, its only natural that you start to finish tracks faster. Trust me on this, also its all well and good saying less is more but where does it say that making sure each part of your track is amZing means adding more stuff?[/quote]
Completely agree. I think taking 1 week or longer to make a great track is much more conducive to improving ur skill than making 20 mediocre tracks in a week. I find I get way more creative when I spend a long time on the little things.
Though i’m not saying to focus ur efforts 100% on a track. It is important to have side projects as well, just don’t be too all-over the place:D
I disagree completely with the original post. I know so many people who get stuck with half finished “supercomplex8barintros”. There’s nothing more demotivating then coming back to a track and thinking, sheesh I still have the rest of the tune to write.
I always tell people it’s better to get the core structure down, then go back over it and make it fancy.
At any point you can stop and say, right that’s enough and at least you have a (somewhat) finished tune.
Also, there’s no such thing as a perfect “completely finished” track. Everytime I pass through the track I could change something, not to say it’s for the better, just something I hear that I think yeah let me try that. And alot of the time it just cycles back round to what I had in the first place.
My advice is; get the track finished. If you listen to it and think “Hmm, the hats aren’t loud enough” or “that synth needs more of an effect” then focus on those areas in the next track.
It will be much more rewarding.
[quote]DFierce (16/08/2011)[hr]I disagree completely with the original post. I know so many people who get stuck with half finished “supercomplex8barintros”. There’s nothing more demotivating then coming back to a track and thinking, sheesh I still have the rest of the tune to write.
I always tell people it’s better to get the core structure down, then go back over it and make it fancy.
At any point you can stop and say, right that’s enough and at least you have a (somewhat) finished tune.
Also, there’s no such thing as a perfect “completely finished” track. Everytime I pass through the track I could change something, not to say it’s for the better, just something I hear that I think yeah let me try that. And alot of the time it just cycles back round to what I had in the first place.
My advice is; get the track finished. If you listen to it and think “Hmm, the hats aren’t loud enough” or “that synth needs more of an effect” then focus on those areas in the next track.
It will be much more rewarding.[/quote]
+1000 on this . Jan needs to read this hehehe
I hate to burst all your bubbles, but if you read the original title of this thread im pretty sure its called My Tip on Arrangement. At no point am i talking about experimentation or getting a track done etc etc. Im talking about structuring your track out and taking that awesome 8 bar loop you have and making a full track out of it.
I really do wish people would read before they start jumping on the bandwagon in the hope of trying to prove me wrong. Tbh i dnt really care, but dont you think its a bit of a bad mentality to think 'yeah im gonna make 100 tracks today and by ‘fluke’ ill probably make one good one…
Wouldnt you much rather spend your time experimenting and getting something good down and then knowing exactly what you have to do to take those 30 seconds of awesomeness and making a track out of it?
I think theres far too much of producers jumping head into tracks, with no clear direction and not having a clue as to why they added a certain loop or sound but just comforting themselves by thinking they are just experimenting. You will find that when you have a ‘game’ plan for a track that all the pieces will fall into place much better then when your just surfing through presets and adding stuff when there may be no need to add stuff.
The small attentions to detail is in essence what seperates the pro’s from the rest. But go right ahead, bang out tracks and get em signed by ‘some guy in his basement digital’ and im sure all your dreams will come true…
[quote]jjdejong0 (16/08/2011)[hr]I hate to burst all your bubbles, but if you read the original title of this thread im pretty sure its called My Tip on Arrangement. At no point am i talking about experimentation or getting a track done etc etc. Im talking about structuring your track out and taking that awesome 8 bar loop you have and making a full track out of it.
I really do wish people would read before they start jumping on the bandwagon in the hope of trying to prove me wrong. Tbh i dnt really care, but dont you think its a bit of a bad mentality to think 'yeah im gonna make 100 tracks today and by ‘fluke’ ill probably make one good one…
Wouldnt you much rather spend your time experimenting and getting something good down and then knowing exactly what you have to do to take those 30 seconds of awesomeness and making a track out of it?
I think theres far too much of producers jumping head into tracks, with no clear direction and not having a clue as to why they added a certain loop or sound but just comforting themselves by thinking they are just experimenting. You will find that when you have a ‘game’ plan for a track that all the pieces will fall into place much better then when your just surfing through presets and adding stuff when there may be no need to add stuff.
The small attentions to detail is in essence what seperates the pro’s from the rest. But go right ahead, bang out tracks and get em signed by ‘some guy in his basement digital’ and im sure all your dreams will come true…[/quote]
Classic Jan hahah. what would i do with out u
aside from the Jokes
yeahh i agree with you to a certain extent. yes paying attention to small details and other stuff helps .
all those Pros guys have started like us too. so i guess the Practice makes Perfect
if you compare their old tracks with the new ones. u can tell that their Mixing.and Music gets better. 
What you also musy realise is the production bar is being raised every day. Listen to some tracks from say 2008 and now and you will hear a distinct difference. Once you start applying some thinking mans structure to producing everything falls into place.
[quote]DFierce (16/08/2011)[hr]
My advice is; get the track finished. If you listen to it and think “Hmm, the hats aren’t loud enough” or “that synth needs more of an effect” then focus on those areas in the next track. [/quote]
This is a good point. It is very important to keep improving ur sounds from track to track. I guess its just tough for a lot of us to accept a track as ‘finished’ when we know we’re gonna learn things in the future that would probably make it better
Lol if you potentially throw away a track because you think oh ill do that better in my next track then who knows what you could be potentially throwing away?!? Seems like an awfull compromise when you can simply tweak something and get your track sounding as good as it possibly can…
Sure you could spend a month on a track and find out its just not a good track no matter what you try and do but the lessons you will learn are priceless.