Doing a lot of internal debating about whether to release music for free, and I think I’m leaning more and more in that direction.
I feel like the days of being able to make money from record sales is pretty much dead, and the only goal that matters is generating a loyal fanbase that will pay to see you live, thus allowing you to make money from touring and DJ gigs.
However, I still think tracks should be released through “legitimate” channels so that other DJs can get .WAV files through Beatport (I buy LOTS of music there because I want uncompressed files). I also think it’s really important to be available on Spotify and Pandora.
So, my strategy is to release everything as a free download, but allow people to buy it, too.
Curious as to your thoughts?
The big thing that changed over the last ten years is the death of dance compilation cds. This was a massive income for dance tracks.
A half decent dance hit could have earned you 100k in comps. A chart hit like chicane offshore was on 250+ comps ranging from 1k to 30k advances each.
That market has died a death although labels have started doing them with itunes tc. So could be on the rise again.
The income from pure sales even back then wasnt worth talking about. 3rd party income was key.
Interesting – didn’t realize that was such a driver financially. I don’t personally consume dance music compilations; I use mostly Pandora, Hypem.com, my soundcloud feed, Beatport, and blogs whose trust I really taste (and obviously, friends) to find music. I don’t know anyone who buys compliations, either, and definitely not anyone who is younger than me (I’m 29).
I think virtually everyone my age and younger than me finds music similarly, if not through the same exact sites, all via the web.
And I know almost no one who actually pays for music. Even amongst music lovers, except those who are vinyl people (I have one friend who fits that description).
My best guess is that as services like Spotify become more prevalent and common and almost all storage moves to the cloud, the idea of “owning” music will become outdated.
And that the money will come almost entirely from licensing and from gigging. Can’t help but think this when I look at artists like Skrillex (or even on the entirely opposite end of the spectrum, Bon Iver). They are both poster boys for the “give it away and hope it goes viral model.”
So, maybe instead I should say: Give it away free until you’re famous – then sell it and let everyone else pirate it. 
Yeah, comps have defo died i death. The Ministry of Sound anual used to be so huge.
Used to sell in the tens of millions.
radio airplay can also be quite lucrative. Off peak play is around £50-80, peak up to about £120 on Radio One.
So if you get on the A playlist which net around 8 plays a dayyou can make a good few thousand every week.
Multiply that with all the other stations ( £10-20 normally) and radio is a nice earner SSin the UK… US used to be impossible for dance music but with the way things are going it might jst be possible to get US Air play with a non mainstream dance track.
US Radio income forva No1 hit is insane. Radio is big out there… Its like 30x the uk in revenue.
Then you also have germany… Another country larger than uk who lves a bit of radio.
You can get very rich with a hit.
Music to film / TV is where it’s at, if you can get a track or even a short sample attached to film, tv then you’re on a winner. Ads and TV theme are gold mines!!
TV varies widely depending on the show and where its used.
Title music for a peak time show is mega money. having a loop in the background of a sky sports sunday show is only a couple of quid.
Ive just done the music for a DIY product advert that is running at the mo so ill let you know what i get on it in a few weeks… Its on a bunch of low rated channels playing at weird hours so i don’t expect too much.
Pauls had a few things on Hollyoaks recently… ill see if i can find out what sort of money you can expect for that now.
From what i remember from Home is if its in the background its only a few hundred.
Never made a penny from sales - dont really expect too
However in negotiation with a games company atm - and I will be getting paid for this and quite handsomely if all goes well - also the game expects to have 2 more sequels and extras where i will be also being paid a percentage off
I have always said once i get 20 or so beatport releases I will give most of my tunes away free
Yeah, radio is obviously a big deal – but the only “dance music” you’re going to hear on the radio in the U.S. is some ****e from David Guetta with Rihanna screaming like a dying animal over it. Shudder
Not saying David Guetta’s all that bad – he’s got some great tracks – but the stuff that makes it on the radio is usually just heinously bad. There are obviously always exceptions, but, my outlook isn’t that great.
But I must admit it IS starting to change a bit; you might hear Levels on the radio, for example, if you’re in Southern California, which has a much more mature EDM scene, but outside of that area, it’s pretty unlikely in my estimation.
Anything is possible, I suppose, but I still really believe the only money to be had is from playing gigs, unless you REALLY luck out or you’re REALLY famous.
I don’t know why everyone hates so much on Guetta, sure he may be a cheese ball but he’s actually brought House back to the US! It’s brilliant.
I don’t hate Guetta – at all, actually.
I just hate quite a few of his tracks where he has some terrible vocalist croaking over them. Especially Rihanna. Something about that woman’s voice drives me up a wall. So harsh and nasally.
Yes but that’s his tracks, I agree. But looking outside of the box, musically what he’s done for ‘house’ music. Lets not get into the debate about whether it’s ‘proper house music’ blah blah, the point is, if it wasn’t for him, avicci and SHM, the Americans wouldn’t be hugely back into House music again.
[quote]Roben (23/04/2012)[hr]Yes but that’s his tracks, I agree. But looking outside of the box, musically what he’s done for ‘house’ music. Lets not get into the debate about whether it’s ‘proper house music’ blah blah, the point is, if it wasn’t for him, avicci and SHM, the Americans wouldn’t be hugely back into House music again.[/quote]
that’s the whole point. if we(americans) have to get back into house by the likes of someone like guetta than edm(house) has to come off really mainstream. and mainstream is a no no for some edm producers that like the exclusivity of an underground sound~!!
I just don’t think your argument is valid.
For MOST people, myself included, discovering music is a process that builds on liking one type of music, and then beginning to like something similar in certain ways.
For example, I got REALLY into EDM a couple of years ago through dubstep (some would call it “brostep”). It’s what was huge at the time in the U.S. I didn’t really care for most house.
But the sonic pallet that I became familiar with in dubstep I also ran across via Pandora when I stumbled upon Boys Noize. I was familiar with the 4/4 structure only subconsciously from other forays into electronic music (Daft Punk, Vitalic, etc.) but I probably wouldn’t have been open to the hard-edged sound of Boys Noize if I hadn’t fallen in love with dubstep.
But not all of his tracks are “tough” – and that led me more and more into the more “classic” house sound, as well as other subgenres. Dutch, progressive, etc., etc.
The point is that it was a gradual process of discovery – one thing leading to another – which resulted in a HUGE new range of music that I now love that I didn’t really even know existed 3 years ago. And now I’m MAKING it.
Your argument that because the sound David Guetta is pushing is mainstream isn’t going to result in underground artists being heard doesn’t make sense.
Guetta, SHM, Avicii – they are all entry points into a whole new realm of music (house) for many Americans that would not otherwise get to experience it or appreciate it. Many people, once exposed to house, even of the more “mainstream” variety, can’t get enough, and that results in exploration into more underground territory.
[quote]thegeek (24/04/2012)[hr]Your argument that because the sound David Guetta is pushing is mainstream isn’t going to result in underground artists being heard doesn’t make sense.
[/quote]
i’m not saying that underground artist won’t be heard because guetta is pushing mainstream.
i’m saying that some underground artists(myself included) may not look to guetta for inspiration these days because he’s so mainstream.
i don’t fault guetta to much. any one of us would turn a little or even a lot mainstream if millions were at stake.
[quote]thegeek (24/04/2012)[hr]I just don’t think your argument is valid.
For MOST people, myself included, discovering music is a process that builds on liking one type of music, and then beginning to like something similar in certain ways.
For example, I got REALLY into EDM a couple of years ago through dubstep (some would call it “brostep”). It’s what was huge at the time in the U.S. I didn’t really care for most house.
But the sonic pallet that I became familiar with in dubstep I also ran across via Pandora when I stumbled upon Boys Noize. I was familiar with the 4/4 structure only subconsciously from other forays into electronic music (Daft Punk, Vitalic, etc.) but I probably wouldn’t have been open to the hard-edged sound of Boys Noize if I hadn’t fallen in love with dubstep.
But not all of his tracks are “tough” – and that led me more and more into the more “classic” house sound, as well as other subgenres. Dutch, progressive, etc., etc.
The point is that it was a gradual process of discovery – one thing leading to another – which resulted in a HUGE new range of music that I now love that I didn’t really even know existed 3 years ago. And now I’m MAKING it.
Your argument that because the sound David Guetta is pushing is mainstream isn’t going to result in underground artists being heard doesn’t make sense.
Guetta, SHM, Avicii – they are all entry points into a whole new realm of music (house) for many Americans that would not otherwise get to experience it or appreciate it. Many people, once exposed to house, even of the more “mainstream” variety, can’t get enough, and that results in exploration into more underground territory.[/quote]
I totally agree with this. I hate the music Guetta and SHM make but it acts as a gateway for people to get into dance music. A random 15 year old isn’t going to walk into a record shop and buy a Moodymann album because they will have no idea who he is and it will probably be over there heads. Given time listening to the likes of SHM they might dig deeper and their musical tastes may expand and then open them up to more underground sounds.
I have had this argument for years with friends of mine. When Hed Kandi was running the show in the UK my mates would say it was the worst thing in the world, but the fact is as a DJ it was far easier to get work playing house then than it is now when hip hop is the flavour of the day.
There has always been a commercial side to EDM right back to the days of K-Klass and the early 90’s stuff, that retro piano house sound was the first thing that got me into house music, I listen to it now and find it cheesy as hell but that fact is, that’s the first dance music I heard. Come to think of it, I think the first house track I can remember hearing was Nightcrawlers-Push The Felling on or maybe Children of The Night, cringe…!!!
I don’t hate 'em, but I certainly don’t like all their tracks. Although SHM’s “One” is pretty undeniably awesome.
[quote]thegeek (24/04/2012)[hr]
Guetta, SHM, Avicii – they are all entry points into a whole new realm of music (house) for many Americans that would not otherwise get to experience it or appreciate it. Many people, once exposed to house, even of the more “mainstream” variety, can’t get enough, and that results in exploration into more underground territory.[/quote]
Hit the nail on the head with this quote.
Producers nowadays can make a ton of money off gigs. I work with guys who make anywhere from 2-10k a show. My roommate was the PA of one of the biggest djs in the world, and his price per booking was insane. Press the play button, pump your fist, collect the checks :w00t:
You are correct in that producers as songwriters can and DO have the opportunity to make $ these days. The formula for banking good cash is the same that it’s been for decades; simply write and produce a great song ! Of course we all know that that’s much easier said than done and what you think might be a hit song may be nothing at all in other people’s opinion, especially any artists or producers that have big name recognition. Trying to place a song with an artist can be exceedingly difficult and always has been. It may be that the song isn’t particularly right for an artist or they may have a similar song already recorded. The first hurdle is to get your song to an artist or exec. producer and demand enough attention that they actually want to use the song. It’s up to you to figure out how to accomplish that through social media, promotional CD’s, live gigs or whatever it takes. For those that are producing EDM music the hurdle is getting material to a highly respected DJ or label and they like major artists and labels get constantly bombarded with tracks every day so to even say it’s difficult may be underestimating it. It’s not impossible though !
My perspective on the reality of the music business today: Things have drastically changed in the music industry over the last decade and many traditional money making opportunities for musicians have evaporated. I’m much older than many members here and I’ve been a musician for more years than many of you are years old. That being said, when I began my musical journey there were lots of paying live gigs, and touring opportunities to be had. Many of my generation took advantage of that and acquired our musician chops, theory, and a wealth of knowledge from covering so many genres that it all eventually seeped into our total understanding of how to sculpt music to whatever we wanted it to be. Because of the atmosphere that I grew up in, I played everything from Hendrix, Cream, and Led Zeppilin, to Disco era songs, to Charlie Parker be bop jazz to fusion jazz. I’ve learned engineering from friends who are Grammy winning engineers, I also play guitar proficiently in most styles, play keyboards and have done session work in LA on both instruments. So I consider myself a pretty well rounded musician /composer. That knowledge foundation has made it somewhat easier to pick up on the ever changing modern EDM scene as well as minimal, tech house, and progressive genres. It’s ironic that the thing that gives most of us older guys the most trouble in modern music production isn’t the music aspect, but learning how to effectively use the technology available. You younger guys grew up with video games and computers so you have a big edge in that department. We struggle while it’s second nature and intuitive to you. Our advantage lies in the fact that the previous decades were a fertile ground for learning many of the music creation basics that make it easier for some of us older dudes to adapt to the changes. Many older musician/composers do get tied to the past but for myself, I thoroughly enjoy and embrace all new music as well as past styles. I am so thankful for growing up in the time period that I did, even though I would have really liked to have the home studio then like I have now ! All we had then were reel to reel and eventually 4 track cassette recorders ! Ha!
I feel somewhat disappointed for you younger aspiring songwriter, producers, artists in whatever genre you are focusing on now because the positive influences that once existed for me are severely lacking in todays culture. Unless you are very focused on learning music yourself (education and live experience) it’s very hard to succeed unless you have already made the commitment that others have. Don’t get left behind or shut yourself off to constantly learning new things (as well as the basics). Today, it is imperative that you be very self motivated, become an aggressive hustler and a tireless self promoter because it is indeed becoming very hard to get noticed or get your foot in the door in order to be successful enough to make a living off of music. I worked hard at what I do, but I was also very lucky in being in the right place at the right time. I’m not too worried about the future of music in general because I hear stuff everyday made by a younger generation of very creative individuals that are pushing the boundaries of what constitutes music that didn’t exist before. It’s every bit as culturally significant as previous generations music. We humans must have music to survive and music will always dominate a major part of our progress as a species and is ever changing to reflect the time periods that we live in.
If you’re truly serious about the music business as a career, believe in yourself and give yourself all the tools you need to be successful, be open minded and learn about music of all genres in the past and present, make the commitment necessary to give yourself a fair shot at achieving your goals and above all be realistic and honestly objective about evaluating your own abilities. Enjoy your gift and appreciate it every day ! Don’t fear failure because it’s part of learning the game. The chances of making a living off of music and perhaps hitting the jackpot of creating a hit song is extremely slim even for the best of us attempting it, regardless of our experience or abilities. All we can do is give it our best shot and if it’s meant to be, it will happen.
Sorry for the long reply, just thought I’d pass along some thoughts coming from an experienced older dude’s perspective that’s still in the game after all of these years ! I knew I shouldn’t have smoked that joint before I began writing ! Be a good person, live long and prosper, create and be happy !
Well put, sir!
“Give it your best shot, and if it’s meant to be, it will happen.”
Words to live by in general, I’d say.