As a smoker I would say that its not a lifestyle choice once your addicted, nicotine is well documented that it is the most addictive to a chemical level (what ever that means).
Good for the people here who were smokers or trying to quit, I applaud you but not everyone is as strong willed or maybe had family, friend, lover their for support or they may have a mental disposition where they are just not able too
People may smoke where some people may eat fast food out of desperation of a life that has no escape
If the non smoking lobby really want to stop smoking they have too understand the route causes of all addiction may it be cigarettes, alcohol, gambling, TV Soaps, looking for the perfect kick 
or Jame’s addiction too porn - and come up with less easy options saying its a life style choice
AS for the smoking ban as a smoker it really does not effect me whatsoever - sure a little inconvenience that i can’t smoke in pubs or clubs is nothing compared too having a family in my waiting room crying as they lost their house due too debt
Edit: sorry had a pissy day normal random spam will resume shortly
[quote]slender (03/08/2011)[hr]
Edit: sorry had a pissy day normal random spam will resume shortly[/quote]
yeahh dude!!! you better straight and keep the spam coming !!
yeahh of course many people have some worst addictions than just cigarettes.
unfortunately in this kind of life we live . we get to meet people that have worst things to worry about than cigarettes being banned.
I lost my best Friend to Heroine . even do he looks the same he dont act the same.
having family support is important but not as important of loving , yourself and taking care of your ****.
not trying to preach anyone here. but you got to love yourself , then things will fall on place like they should ( quitting Drugs , Alcohol or other ill **** we do hehe )
[quote]alinenunez (03/08/2011)[hr][quote]slender (03/08/2011)[hr]
Edit: sorry had a pissy day normal random spam will resume shortly[/quote]
yeahh dude!!! you better straight and keep the spam coming !!
yeahh of course many people have some worst addictions than just cigarettes.
unfortunately in this kind of life we live . we get to meet people that have worst things to worry about than cigarettes being banned.
I lost my best Friend to Heroine . even do he looks the same he dont act the same.
having family support is important but not as important of loving , yourself and taking care of your ****.
not trying to preach anyone here. but you got to love yourself , then things will fall on place like they should ( quitting Drugs , Alcohol or other ill **** we do hehe )
[/quote]
But then again my friend some people can not love themselves maybe through a deed they did, or done too them, depression etc etc
I don’t disagree with you sentiments what so ever but again it’s giving the lazy answer to the solution and not addressing the crux of the matter
I too have lost friends to drug abuse horrible to see and so easy to get dragged down too their level (I don’t mean actually taking smack but lending them a little cash here and there)
[quote]slender (03/08/2011)[hr][quote]alinenunez (03/08/2011)[hr][quote]slender (03/08/2011)[hr]
Edit: sorry had a pissy day normal random spam will resume shortly[/quote]
yeahh dude!!! you better straight and keep the spam coming !!
yeahh of course many people have some worst addictions than just cigarettes.
unfortunately in this kind of life we live . we get to meet people that have worst things to worry about than cigarettes being banned.
I lost my best Friend to Heroine . even do he looks the same he dont act the same.
having family support is important but not as important of loving , yourself and taking care of your ****.
not trying to preach anyone here. but you got to love yourself , then things will fall on place like they should ( quitting Drugs , Alcohol or other ill **** we do hehe )
[/quote]
But then again my friend some people can not love themselves maybe through a deed they did, or done too them, depression etc etc
I don’t disagree with you sentiments what so ever but again it’s giving the lazy answer to the solution and not addressing the crux of the matter
I too have lost friends to drug abuse horrible to see and so easy to get dragged down too their level (I don’t mean actually taking smack but lending them a little cash here and there)[/quote]
I agree. I tried to figure how things work before.and the more i thought the more complicated the problems became. like Producing Music , sometimes simplicity is the Key to make Great things :D.
smoking is only an addiction if you dont really want to stop!!
Ok to put it in simple terms…
You dont poor booze down my throat, but someone who is drunk in my oppinion is just as potentially dangerous as someone sat next to you having a cig.
Everybody reacts to alcahol differently, lets say im a non drinker and I go to a club. Whats to say some drunk idiot isnt gonna think I gave him a dirty look and wait after the club closes with a few of his mates and assault me? Now I dont drink, no one has forced me to drink but because of the effects of alcahol I end up in a dangerous situation.
Of course its crazy to think like this, but its EXACTLY the same as thinking ure gonna get cancer because you go to a club/pub where people smoke.
I actually also grew up in a pub, I know alot of pub owners and its very sad and disheartening to see these people go bust. The really disgusting thing at least here in Holland is that about 90% of people that regularly go to the pub are smokers, the two go hand in hand, especially for the older folk. Now lets take the atmosphere of the pub. You go out with your friends and you are a non smoker. Its a real blast being in the pub and having ure friends go outside every ten minutes for a cig. I bet you really have a great time. Also from my experience, the people that visit pubs regularly and dont smoke, dont give two shiny ****es about people around them smoking.
It just amazes me how everyone is sooooooo anti smoking but treat alcahol as Jezus Christ. Alcahol claims more lives than cigs, it can be just as addictive and damaging and is costing governmemts billions each year. Its also taking lives at an increasing rate but you all just seem to wanna ignore these FACTS and just jump on the smoking ban bandwagon.
Now I would never force anyone to smoke, if im smoking and a friend of mine is bothered by it I will move away BUT in an equal free world a smoker has just as much right to stand next to you and smoke as a non smoker has to tell them to **** off. But its not fair is it, as non smokers can have a nice sweaty bo stenchy club to themselves and the smokers are forced outside in the rain/snow.
But seriously guys I advise you all to type alcahol wikipedia into google and read up on your facts.
Also Roben you really made a great argument there mate, seriously I may as well just give up, I cant go up against counter arguments like that, have you gone to the US to write Obamas speeches? Really just literal genius…
[quote]jjdejong0 (03/08/2011)[hr]Ok to put it in simple terms…
You dont poor booze down my throat, but someone who is drunk in my oppinion is just as potentially dangerous as someone sat next to you having a cig.
Everybody reacts to alcahol differently, lets say im a non drinker and I go to a club. Whats to say some drunk idiot isnt gonna think I gave him a dirty look and wait after the club closes with a few of his mates and assault me? Now I dont drink, no one has forced me to drink but because of the effects of alcahol I end up in a dangerous situation.
Of course its crazy to think like this, but its EXACTLY the same as thinking ure gonna get cancer because you go to a club/pub where people smoke.
I actually also grew up in a pub, I know alot of pub owners and its very sad and disheartening to see these people go bust. The really disgusting thing at least here in Holland is that about 90% of people that regularly go to the pub are smokers, the two go hand in hand, especially for the older folk. Now lets take the atmosphere of the pub. You go out with your friends and you are a non smoker. Its a real blast being in the pub and having ure friends go outside every ten minutes for a cig. I bet you really have a great time. Also from my experience, the people that visit pubs regularly and dont smoke, dont give two shiny ****es about people around them smoking.
It just amazes me how everyone is sooooooo anti smoking but treat alcahol as Jezus Christ. Alcahol claims more lives than cigs, it can be just as addictive and damaging and is costing governmemts billions each year. Its also taking lives at an increasing rate but you all just seem to wanna ignore these FACTS and just jump on the smoking ban bandwagon.
Now I would never force anyone to smoke, if im smoking and a friend of mine is bothered by it I will move away BUT in an equal free world a smoker has just as much right to stand next to you and smoke as a non smoker has to tell them to **** off. But its not fair is it, as non smokers can have a nice sweaty bo stenchy club to themselves and the smokers are forced outside in the rain/snow.
But seriously guys I advise you all to type alcahol wikipedia into google and read up on your facts.
Also Roben you really made a great argument there mate, seriously I may as well just give up, I cant go up against counter arguments like that, have you gone to the US to write Obamas speeches? Really just literal genius…[/quote]
Good point Jan !!
[quote]jjdejong0 (03/08/2011)[hr]Ok to put it in simple terms…
You dont poor booze down my throat, but someone who is drunk in my oppinion is just as potentially dangerous as someone sat next to you having a cig.
Everybody reacts to alcahol differently, lets say im a non drinker and I go to a club. Whats to say some drunk idiot isnt gonna think I gave him a dirty look and wait after the club closes with a few of his mates and assault me? Now I dont drink, no one has forced me to drink but because of the effects of alcahol I end up in a dangerous situation.
Of course its crazy to think like this, but its EXACTLY the same as thinking ure gonna get cancer because you go to a club/pub where people smoke.
I actually also grew up in a pub, I know alot of pub owners and its very sad and disheartening to see these people go bust. The really disgusting thing at least here in Holland is that about 90% of people that regularly go to the pub are smokers, the two go hand in hand, especially for the older folk. Now lets take the atmosphere of the pub. You go out with your friends and you are a non smoker. Its a real blast being in the pub and having ure friends go outside every ten minutes for a cig. I bet you really have a great time. Also from my experience, the people that visit pubs regularly and dont smoke, dont give two shiny ****es about people around them smoking.
It just amazes me how everyone is sooooooo anti smoking but treat alcahol as Jezus Christ. Alcahol claims more lives than cigs, it can be just as addictive and damaging and is costing governmemts billions each year. Its also taking lives at an increasing rate but you all just seem to wanna ignore these FACTS and just jump on the smoking ban bandwagon.
Now I would never force anyone to smoke, if im smoking and a friend of mine is bothered by it I will move away BUT in an equal free world a smoker has just as much right to stand next to you and smoke as a non smoker has to tell them to **** off. But its not fair is it, as non smokers can have a nice sweaty bo stenchy club to themselves and the smokers are forced outside in the rain/snow.
But seriously guys I advise you all to type alcahol wikipedia into google and read up on your facts.
Also Roben you really made a great argument there mate, seriously I may as well just give up, I cant go up against counter arguments like that, have you gone to the US to write Obamas speeches? Really just literal genius…[/quote]
Yeah man, I have to agree with you here. Everything about the whole anti-smoking lobby just seems way OTT. Back in the day man, noone gave a ****. It’s this whole paranoia frenzy that seems to creeping a hold on everyone ever since the 9/11 attacks. Now we can’t do this and we can’t do that, because it affects these people and it affects those people. There’s just no like tolerance towards us at all for us, we’ve been dealt a total crap hand. If I was a non-smoker myself, I’d always lean towards the decision that gives us all the chance to share the amount of enjoyment we possibly can all have together. So there’s no divisions, everyone’s an equal. And if I go to a club with smokers, that’s ok because even though I’m taking a small risk… I’m having a better experience with everyone in one place at the one time.
There was another point about missing the music and leaving your friends to go outside. See the people who say there’s no difference, I think they’re talking pish. If everyone is constantly hearing the music with no interruptions it’s going to get everyone into the “trance” like state that everyone becomes a part of so much easier. When you go outside for a smoke, you’re giving your mind a break. The whole point of techno is relentlessness. I honestly don’t see how sets are ever going to be as intense as they once were with people constantly coming and going.
I liked your point on the drinking comparison. Now that really is a social problem, yet we all joke and laugh that it’s funny seeing someone pissed out their face walking down the street. I see no difference between that and a person smacked up walking about. Obviously we don’t prefer the addict but it’s exactly the same thing, yet somehow we all tolerate it. Just goes to show how skewed society’s view is on most things.
I just don’t see how these can be arguments against each other.
Booze is a source of many, many issues, that’s right, but what we’re talking about here is the inconvenience and risk you’re putting other people in by smoking in a bar. You’re forcing your habit onto them, they’re not forcing their drinking habit on you. Alcohol related violence and smoking related inconvenience are two totally seperate areas of argument.
If we take excessive alcohol out of the equation and look at the example of a restaurant. Sure, you may have a glass or two of booze with your meal, but they’re typically not places you go and get drunk, right? Why should I have to smell someone elses smoke whilst I’m eating? Are you saying that I should have to put up with your habit ruining my meal because “you have the right to do anything anywhere”?
Not jumping on a bandwagon here - I honestly love the smoking rules. If you want to have this stupid habit then keep it the hell away from me!
Over 300,000 children in the UK present passive smoking related illnesses to their GP every year and it is estimated that it costs £9.7 million per annum in UK primary care visits and £12.1 million per annum in hospital admission in England.
Source: Passive Smoking and Children, Royal College of Physicians, March 2010
Look, let’s split the two arguments up as they’re not at all related. You cannot logically argue that “you don’t want to ban drinking therefore smoking in public places is ok” because, frankly, it’s not.
You want to debate the relative virtues and vices of both habits/hobbies/addictions then fine but they’re separate debates not at all related.
The fact is smoking kills people and not just the people who do it. It’s filthy, dirty and you smoke because it’s better than the feeling when you don’t smoke. It’s a reverse pleasure.
You want to smoke, you want to kill yourself? No problem, just do it in a way that doesn’t harm me or mine. Oh, and if you develop a smoking related illness/cancer as a direct result of your choice to smoke then you should really expect to have to pay for your treatment and not burden the taxpayer.
Yes, I could make some or all of these same arguments against drinking but, like I said, they are separate debates. Don’t try to justify one bad thing with another one.
I agree the alcohol and smoking argument is pretty flawed - Jan if I remember I am twice your age so I have been visiting pubs and clubs for around 30 years as a punter - I can swear on my life I have never had someone pick a fight with me - had a few words but no psychical fisty cuffs - now if I was not a smoker the likely hood that I may pick up a smoking related illness from those 30 years is far more higher then some idiot wanting to fight me in a pub
Alcohol is a massive drain on our national health resources that is no doubt, just need to visit and A&E department on a Thus, Fri, Saturday night but this may have alot to do with our very stupid laws where people feel they have to cram as many pints down there neck in a few hours - probably a cultural thing too as we don’t really have the weather to sit outside and drink socially as our friends in southern Europe can enjoy
Just done some research on your facts as well Jan - it seems that if you are a smoker you are more likely to die earlier than a drinker - though if you are a smoker your more likely going to drink
Anyway as I said before far more things happening on my own doorstep to worry if i can smoke or not in pubs in clubs -the ban is here to stay live with it
[quote]jonsloan (04/08/2011)[hr]No problem, just do it in a way that doesn’t harm me or mine. Oh, and if you develop a smoking related illness/cancer as a direct result of your choice to smoke then you should really expect to have to pay for your treatment and not burden the taxpayer.
[/quote]
Got to strongly disagree with you - on so many moral and legal reasons but I have techno to make so ain’t going to go down this road
Smoking ban has been introduced to protect the people that WORK in bars, clubs etc, not to protect people that CHOOSE to visit them. The fact that less people will get second hand smoke, and the fact that there has been a marked increase in people giving up smoking after the smoking ban is a happy side effect.
[quote]slender (04/08/2011)[hr][quote]jonsloan (04/08/2011)[hr]No problem, just do it in a way that doesn’t harm me or mine. Oh, and if you develop a smoking related illness/cancer as a direct result of your choice to smoke then you should really expect to have to pay for your treatment and not burden the taxpayer.
[/quote]
Got to strongly disagree with you - on so many moral and legal reasons but I have techno to make so ain’t going to go down this road[/quote]
Yes, where do you draw the line? What about people that do sports with some form of danger? If they get injured should they pay for themselves?
Morally what is the difference?
I never argued it should only be restricted to smoking. And yes I have insurance for the stupid stuff I choose to do. And general health insurance. The NHS will probably be gone in a meaningful sense during our lifetimes.
[quote]jonsloan (04/08/2011)[hr]I never argued it should only be restricted to smoking. And yes I have insurance for the stupid stuff I choose to do. And general health insurance. The NHS will probably be gone in a meaningful sense during our lifetimes.[/quote]
So where do you draw the line? This sounds a lot like an argument to disolve the NHS and for everyone (that can afford it) to get private health insurance, like you have.
No just realism or pragmatism. I think we’ll see big changes in the next 30 or so years in many areas of social life/economy. We’ll all have to make do with less then we expect to have right now.
Too many humans on the planet. Too much wrong thinking / short termism / money before society thinking. But that’s a whole other topic.
[quote]TheAnt (04/08/2011)[hr]Smoking ban has been introduced to protect the people that WORK in bars, clubs etc, not to protect people that CHOOSE to visit them. The fact that less people will get second hand smoke, and the fact that there has been a marked increase in people giving up smoking after the smoking ban is a happy side effect.[/quote]
If that’s the case then why didn’t the government allow pub owners to decide wither or not their premises permitted smoking. As has been said, it’s probably damaged a lot of businesses not forgetting people’s actual livelyhood.
[quote]saulable (04/08/2011)[hr][quote]TheAnt (04/08/2011)[hr]Smoking ban has been introduced to protect the people that WORK in bars, clubs etc, not to protect people that CHOOSE to visit them. The fact that less people will get second hand smoke, and the fact that there has been a marked increase in people giving up smoking after the smoking ban is a happy side effect.[/quote]
If that’s the case then why didn’t the government allow pub owners to decide wither or not their premises permitted smoking. As has been said, it’s probably damaged a lot of businesses not forgetting people’s actual livelyhood.
[/quote]
Well any employer would not be able to employ a non smoker in his pub because he would potntially breaking H&S laws and he would not be able to ask at an interiew if he smokes or not as that would be a form of discrimination (sort off)
[quote]saulable (04/08/2011)
If that’s the case then why didn’t the government allow pub owners to decide wither or not their premises permitted smoking.[/quote]
Um, to protect the workers, not just the employers.
[quote]saulable (04/08/2011)
As has been said, it’s probably damaged a lot of businesses not forgetting people’s actual livelyhood.
[/quote]
Really? Any evidence for that? So people don’t go to bars and clubs because they have to go outside to smoke. Does that sound realistic?
Isn’t it more likely that people still go to bars and clubs just as much as before, but they go and smoke outside, but a little bit less than if they could smoke inside because of the inconvenience?
I go to bars and clubs and they seem to have as many people in as before.