Hi all just dropping this because i think this place needs a proper discussion .
i just wanted say this place has gone from one of the best music sites on the net to one of the worst, !!.
Customer loyalty means absolutely nothing to sonic academy, they persist in taking your money only give you a limited nudge on the things you really want to know.
as a point ask your self how much time you’ve wasted here and how much you have actually learned from them apart from making music by numbers !!!
also the only real bit of info thats with a look at recently is jaimie’s tute’s on theory HE DOS”NT EVEN WORK FOR SONIC !!!
all in all shoddy really ,and money for old rope springs to mind .
Im not trying to be a spanner in your music carreer but you could deaf do better than here .
not a dig in any way at any forum users just don’t like whats happening …feels like you guys are being robbed !!
[quote]egg2 (27/08/2011)[hr]Hi all just dropping this because i think this place needs a proper discussion .
i just wanted say this place has gone from one of the best music sites on the net to one of the worst, !!.
Customer loyalty means absolutely nothing to sonic academy, they persist in taking your money only give you a limited nudge on the things you really want to know.
as a point ask your self how much time you’ve wasted here and how much you have actually learned from them apart from making music by numbers !!!
also the only real bit of info thats with a look at recently is jaimie’s tute’s on theory HE DOS”NT EVEN WORK FOR SONIC !!!
all in all shoddy really ,and money for old rope springs to mind .
Im not trying to be a spanner in your music carreer but you could deaf do better than here .
not a dig in any way at any forum users just don’t like whats happening …feels like you guys are being robbed !!
[/quote]
Jamie’s stuff is dope and on point. They should stick him on the payroll. The rest, I agree, could try harder. Take for example the tech tip of using the tape delay on logic for saturation - something you’ll find discussed on places like gearslutz etc. Is it a valid technique that pros use? I don’t think so, it’s a curiosity at best. Get Jamie in to do the stuff he’s good at and the rest of the lads play to your strengths - you’re good at trance, progressive etc. For other stuff get in people as consultants. What happened to the ‘sell your own tutorials’ thing? Is that live or in beta? It’s a competitive market out there at the moment - tons of free stuff that is of high quality. It’s time to step up. All the best with it, this community is loyal and plenty have benefitted so far - that counts for something.
Honestly guys, I think that this kind of service is a very difficult thing to provide for anyone interested in making music. I say this because there is no way Phil or Bryan can provide a “how-to” video for every existing style out there at the moment. What’s more, the moment they do, the music industry is going to come up with some other “sound” that people are going to want to copy, thus making the existing videos “seemingly” obsolete.
Here is why I put “seemingly” in quotes:
I am a professional musician with as much education as I can have in the field of music performance and pedagogy. After watching almost 70% of the videos that Phil and Bryan have done, I can safely say as a trained music educator that almost EVERYTHING one would need to know to make quality electronic music in whatever style they choose is surveyed in the videos. Period.
The problem is that people are often looking at the “how” instead of the “why.” This is the crux of successful versus not-so-successful instruction. If the viewer is unable to identify the CONCEPTS that these videos provide, regardless of the style that is being surveyed in that series, then that viewer is going to have a long, troubled music-making career. In other words, there are WAY too many people here asking “How to sound like” this person or that person instead of asking “Why” this or that musical concept would work well for their music. Want to know why people aren’t interested in this method? It’s because it is DIFFICULT, and TIME-CONSUMING, and takes actual WORK.
I am certainly not directing this at you, Egg, because I know you have a hard-work ethic and make some great music, but I have to say I am really disappointed that there are so many people on this site and elsewhere looking for quick answers to questions and concepts that I have essentially a) devoted my life to understanding, and b) have taken 25-30 years to learn in a fluid manner.
Take a look at how many threads in this message board ask the sort of following questions:
- How to sound like ________ (enter artist-who-is-already-making-music-in-that-style-here-which-means-you-are-a-follower-and-late-to-the-party, here)
- How do I get this bass sound?
- How do I side-chain compress (when I don’t even know where my kick is in frequency anyway) ?
- How do I get my kick to be as fat as possible even though it is overpowering my mix and doesn’t even match stylistically?
- What styles are popular right now so I can write that and become a famous DJ/Producer?
and so on…
Rarely ever a question asking “why” a certain process would make a bass sound full, or a kick to sound fat. Answers to questions that can be carried to the next song and used again in a similar context, albeit in a different setting. In other words, developing a process and thus becoming your OWN TEACHER. But no, it’s all about the quick fix. Because that’s easier. Troubling, to say the least!
Secondly, there are many folks on this board who are more than equipped to help others learn concepts, but are not willing to share that information for whatever reason they feel is necessary to retain that help. Lots of takers, but very few givers. That’s all I’ll say about that.
Now, I certainly don’t run SA, but if it were my business, I’d get rid of all the style-based videos and have nothing but concept-driven videos that will allow people to actually learn the important fundamentals that make music the language that it is. There would be no house, minimal, trance, dustup, whatever… It would be an actual institution of music, where completion meant you had a firm command of everything one would need to build a track from the ground up in the style of your choice. Anyone complaining about not getting enough of one style over another would promptly be ejected from the website and asked not to return. But that’s just me… After all, the guys have to offer what sells, and the majority of people here just want to rehash what they hear on their CDs or in the clubs. Little do they know that when they finish watching Phil present concepts in his way of teaching, they totally missed the points they SHOULD be remembering when they try it on their own. They are essentially back to square one.
Again, Egg. I’m not directing this post at you. This is just a general stream of consciousness that has been rolling around in my head for quite some time. It has been relatively pleasing to know so many people like my videos and find them useful. But I often ask myself how many of them are REALLY studying and trying to absorb what I am doing and providing. For example, did anyone really notice that I had no processing on the rhythm series of videos? No compressors, EQs, nothing… Did anyone really go on to study the intricacies of simple vs. compound meter? Probably not. Just complaints that it was “techno.” Has anyone actually gone into the “melody” videos and worked really hard to make a good antecedent-consequent phrase? Not sure… Maybe one person a couple months ago posted a tune that said he had.
This is the type of mentality Phil and Bryan are up against, Egg: Quick, easy, with the least amount of thought and work, but hoping for the most reward.
I certainly wouldn’t want to tackle that mentality as an educator. It’s the most dangerous attitude a student can have. The best thing Phil and Bryan can do right now is not give the mob what it asks for, but what it NEEDS… And not be afraid to do it, either.
Really?!
Personally I like the practical Sonic Academy tuts better than the music theory ones. Keep up the good work you guys.
Also, for everyone else who’s complaining…HTFU!
Chopper Reid - Harden the fuck up, Australia - YouTube
(parental warning: explicit lyrics) 
I think too many people look at tutorials and expect to be a pro overnight, this wont happen! I think everything you learn from someone else should be taken as ‘something to try for yourself’. Not as the be all end all of your production career. There is too much time spent reading/watching tutorials and how to’s rather than sotting behind your computer and actually doing/trying things out for yoirself…
[quote]lattetown (27/08/2011)[hr]Really?!
Personally I like the practical Sonic Academy tuts better than the music theory ones. Keep up the good work you guys.
Also, for everyone else who’s complaining…HTFU!
Chopper Reid - Harden the fuck up, Australia - YouTube
(parental warning: explicit lyrics) ;)[/quote]
For everyone else who’s complaining HTFU?
Stick to caveman house Lattetown, cos free speech obviously aint something that you’re into…
[quote]JamieinNC (27/08/2011)[hr]Honestly guys, I think that this kind of service is a very difficult thing to provide for anyone interested in making music. I say this because there is no way Phil or Bryan can provide a “how-to” video for every existing style out there at the moment. What’s more, the moment they do, the music industry is going to come up with some other “sound” that people are going to want to copy, thus making the existing videos “seemingly” obsolete.
Here is why I put “seemingly” in quotes:
I am a professional musician with as much education as I can have in the field of music performance and pedagogy. After watching almost 70% of the videos that Phil and Bryan have done, I can safely say as a trained music educator that almost EVERYTHING one would need to know to make quality electronic music in whatever style they choose is surveyed in the videos. Period.
The problem is that people are often looking at the “how” instead of the “why.” This is the crux of successful versus not-so-successful instruction. If the viewer is unable to identify the CONCEPTS that these videos provide, regardless of the style that is being surveyed in that series, then that viewer is going to have a long, troubled music-making career. In other words, there are WAY too many people here asking “How to sound like” this person or that person instead of asking “Why” this or that musical concept would work well for their music. Want to know why people aren’t interested in this method? It’s because it is DIFFICULT, and TIME-CONSUMING, and takes actual WORK.
I am certainly not directing this at you, Egg, because I know you have a hard-work ethic and make some great music, but I have to say I am really disappointed that there are so many people on this site and elsewhere looking for quick answers to questions and concepts that I have essentially a) devoted my life to understanding, and b) have taken 25-30 years to learn in a fluid manner.
Take a look at how many threads in this message board ask the sort of following questions:
- How to sound like ________ (enter artist-who-is-already-making-music-in-that-style-here-which-means-you-are-a-follower-and-late-to-the-party, here)
- How do I get this bass sound?
- How do I side-chain compress (when I don’t even know where my kick is in frequency anyway) ?
- How do I get my kick to be as fat as possible even though it is overpowering my mix and doesn’t even match stylistically?
- What styles are popular right now so I can write that and become a famous DJ/Producer?
and so on…
Rarely ever a question asking “why” a certain process would make a bass sound full, or a kick to sound fat. Answers to questions that can be carried to the next song and used again in a similar context, albeit in a different setting. In other words, developing a process and thus becoming your OWN TEACHER. But no, it’s all about the quick fix. Because that’s easier. Troubling, to say the least!
Secondly, there are many folks on this board who are more than equipped to help others learn concepts, but are not willing to share that information for whatever reason they feel is necessary to retain that help. Lots of takers, but very few givers. That’s all I’ll say about that.
Now, I certainly don’t run SA, but if it were my business, I’d get rid of all the style-based videos and have nothing but concept-driven videos that will allow people to actually learn the important fundamentals that make music the language that it is. There would be no house, minimal, trance, dustup, whatever… It would be an actual institution of music, where completion meant you had a firm command of everything one would need to build a track from the ground up in the style of your choice. Anyone complaining about not getting enough of one style over another would promptly be ejected from the website and asked not to return. But that’s just me… After all, the guys have to offer what sells, and the majority of people here just want to rehash what they hear on their CDs or in the clubs. Little do they know that when they finish watching Phil present concepts in his way of teaching, they totally missed the points they SHOULD be remembering when they try it on their own. They are essentially back to square one.
Again, Egg. I’m not directing this post at you. This is just a general stream of consciousness that has been rolling around in my head for quite some time. It has been relatively pleasing to know so many people like my videos and find them useful. But I often ask myself how many of them are REALLY studying and trying to absorb what I am doing and providing. For example, did anyone really notice that I had no processing on the rhythm series of videos? No compressors, EQs, nothing… Did anyone really go on to study the intricacies of simple vs. compound meter? Probably not. Just complaints that it was “techno.” Has anyone actually gone into the “melody” videos and worked really hard to make a good antecedent-consequent phrase? Not sure… Maybe one person a couple months ago posted a tune that said he had.
This is the type of mentality Phil and Bryan are up against, Egg: Quick, easy, with the least amount of thought and work, but hoping for the most reward.
I certainly wouldn’t want to tackle that mentality as an educator. It’s the most dangerous attitude a student can have. The best thing Phil and Bryan can do right now is not give the mob what it asks for, but what it NEEDS… And not be afraid to do it, either.
[/quote]
Some wise words there, looks like you might need to be promoted to course co-ordinator as well as being star teacher!
Egg… The thing is we’ve always catered for beginner and intermediate producers… Where the type of videos we do are really useful.
We fully understand that people like yourself might not get what they did 3 years ago when they where just starting out. And there might be less reason for them to subscribe.
This why introduced the ability to puchase individual courses so if there is a paticular thing you are interested in you can get just that.
I think if you get to the point where you understand everything in the tutorials the only next step is creativity and tallent which we can’t teach.
We are also still developing the user gen stuff… It’s just taking longer than we hoped… We have been developing a totally revamped search, comments and ratings feature for all the videos which will be ready really soon.
We also love constructive criticism and new ideas as we genuinely care about our customers but as Jamie says it’s impossible to cater for everyone.
Fair play guys and thanks for the response phil,When i joined 4 YEaR’s ago i wasn’t a noob as such but ,i deaf learned a few tricks but have also tried really hard to support sonic academy and any new user to the forums with knowledge gained through years of research , not trying to disrespect s.a but maybe the advanced stuff needs to come into play, other sites do do this ,but it’d be really cool to see s.a do it ( maybe i could run some stuff by you phil ?)
I for one would love to see Egg do some Tech content 
[quote]egg2 (27/08/2011)[hr]Fair play guys and thanks for the response phil,When i joined 4 YEaR’s ago i wasn’t a noob as such but ,i deaf learned a few tricks but have also tried really hard to support sonic academy and any new user to the forums with knowledge gained through years of research , not trying to disrespect s.a but maybe the advanced stuff needs to come into play, other sites do do this ,but it’d be really cool to see s.a do it ( maybe i could run some stuff by you phil ?)[/quote]
I would love to hear yours or anyones thoughts… Especially on what advanced stuff you are looking for.
The hardest thing for me personally is finding intersting ideas for courses so id love to get more non HTSL requests.
Surely the more courses there are the less there is to cover? Is this not the eternal problem all music tutorial companies/people face?
[quote]ICN (27/08/2011)[hr]
For everyone else who’s complaining HTFU?
Stick to caveman house Lattetown, cos free speech obviously aint something that you’re into…[/quote]
Dude, telling someone to stick to caveman house ain’t exactly an example of tolerance free speech…I guess humor isn’t something you’re into :rolleyes:
[quote]lattetown (27/08/2011)[hr]Dude, telling someone to stick to caveman house ain’t exactly an example of tolerance free speech…I guess humor isn’t something you’re into :rolleyes:[/quote]
Put your glasses back on Joe90 & get your own joke - I guess irony isnt something you’re into :doze: 
Back to on topic - ha thats a first for me
Egg does have a good point - I certainly have not seen much that would inspire to watch, buy or subscribe this year - but still think I have a lot to learn
I have certainly noticed a lot of old subscribers not renewing their subs and having asked quite a few they all basically say the same thing that they have found the recent HTSL rather sameish (thats not including the techno people as our thoughts are quite obvious)
But I do beleive that if your new to production or even semi skilled you would learn alot and there always seems to be new people posting all the time
But as Phil states it hard to please everyone - especially if you stick to genres
[quote]phil johnston (27/08/2011)[hr]I would love to hear yours or anyones thoughts… Especially on what advanced stuff you are looking for.
The hardest thing for me personally is finding intersting ideas for courses so id love to get more non HTSL requests.
[/quote]
Tell ya what I think would be wicked Phil…
A lecture… maybe a monthly thing.
Would be cool to have you on skype & have maybe 3 or 4 people on with ya, throwing questions etc… at you. I’d say the amount of ideas & insight that would come out of that would be something else. It would be natural, totally fkn unscripted & would undoubtably provide multiple tangents / ideas for future tech tips & advanced techniques.
If you could record that & post it, everyone could get into it in the Subs forum?
Maybe you could then answer anything in a reply or short video response - whatever.
AND/Or…
Do some “In the Studio” type feature with some “name” producers? Paul H springs to mind 
and lock their family in a box until they start co-operating - LOL
No offense Phil but there are a crap load of HTSL requests, wouldnt it be better to try cover all your bases before moving on to non related HTSL stuff?
[quote]ICN (27/08/2011)[hr][quote]phil johnston (27/08/2011)[hr]I would love to hear yours or anyones thoughts… Especially on what advanced stuff you are looking for.
The hardest thing for me personally is finding intersting ideas for courses so id love to get more non HTSL requests.
[/quote]
Tell ya what I think would be wicked Phil…
A lecture… maybe a monthly thing.
Would be cool to have you on skype & have maybe 3 or 4 people on with ya, throwing questions etc… at you. I’d say the amount of ideas & insight that would come out of that would be something else. It would be natural,totally fkn unscripted & would undoubtably provide multiple tangents / ideas for future tech tips & advanced techniques.
If you could record that & post it, everyone could get into it in theSubs forum?
Maybe you could then answer anything in a reply orshort video response- whatever.
AND/Or…
Do some “In the Studio” type feature with some “name” producers? Paul H springs to mind and lock their family in a box until they start co-operating - LOL[/quote]
Im beginning to sound like a broken record when it comes to you ICN but these are wise words too. Good ideas there.
Yeah i really think the live webcast thing would be great… Weve had a few test with the tech thats needed in getting this going.
The likes of justintv and livestream dont do 720p… So ithink we will have to do it ourselves which requires more investigation.
Ive asked paul manys a time to do something… Hes just so busy! And tbh no producers really likes giving away their production secrets.
Cop out Phil!!
Be honest - You dont know Paul, do ya?!
_____________________________________
Webcast thing = FTW future sh!t