So people might judge me for talking about this…
But I’m gunna do it anyway. Cause this has been bothering me.
I am always reading threads about people complaining regarding vsts, software & plugins…
Lots of people dont get that software costs money, they sign up for SA and then all of a suddent they realize that they have to spend more money on VSTs to follow tutorials…
I see lots of people respond, but I’m always thinking… why dont they just go download it.
Now I know the arguments for illegal software… You should pay to support the company that supports you, Downloading Pirated stuff is Illegal… And the list goes on.
Personally I will admit… I downloaded Ableton Live 8 before I bought it. My version seemed to crash a bunch (probably cause it was cracked), but after using the software for a little bit I realized I wanted a legit copy. I thought it was worth it. Same with the Sylenth & Nexus Plugins. Using the software made me see the value in making a purchase. And the real versions all seem to work better than the cracked ones.
However, It almost seems like its a non-discussed issue here. Nobody ever mentions this to anybody.
Whenever I have a friend tell me about some cool plugin or vst I should get… I go download it… and check it out first. If it blows my socks off… then I will fork over $$.
I dont have the resources to spend on things that I dont know the quality of or how often I will really use. However if & when I get to the point that I am making good money off my career as a producer / DJ… Then I absolutely would pay for everything from the get-go. It only makes sense to pay tribute at that point. But for the sake of learning and educational purposes… Most people are broke. What is the difference?
Is it against SA policy for community members to suggest things like this?
Or is it extremely taboo to talk about this amongst the community?
I am just wondering… because I see these other threads and sometimes I just want to post a link up to piratebay and let that be the end of it. I’m not saying that SA should make a freakin tutorial on how to illegally download software… I’m just saying that it seems like a subject nobody touches on really.
So I’m asking… 
Be honest… And if I get flamed for this post then so be it… I’m simply asking a question.
Well I think it would be illegal for any site hosted in the EEC to allow download links to be posted for pirated software even though we both know its dumb easy too get practicaly anything we want for free.
Sure I understand where your coming from and have on occasions done it myself to try before I buy with full functionality and if I liked it I would buy so I can get all the updates etc… Software companies know this too despite their denial otherwise they would make it as hard as possible - exactly like the film industry. However saying that probably 1 out of 10 copies of Ableton out their is legal so you can see that they are losing profit
The whole copyright thing does need to be looked at again for the music industry as a whole and some good arguments for and against legislation
Incedently the last goverments last bill before they were disolved were very strict laws against downloaded pirate films, music and software so if you are be aware as 3 times and your connection can be cut off - ofcourse there are ways around it which a simple google search could reveal
I suspect largely the lack of talk about it is probably due to forum rules etc.
If I ran this site I wouldnt want talk of pirating etc as it wont help the business/rep etc. And over all I think the users here respects that (not suggesting you don’t, just answering your point).
We all know we could get it for free etc, just it might not help the coversation, though I see your points of course.
[quote]bangthedj (09/07/2010)[hr]I suspect largely the lack of talk about it is probably due to forum rules etc.
If I ran this site I wouldnt want talk of pirating etc as it wont help the business/rep etc. And over all I think the users here respects that (not suggesting you don’t, just answering your point).
We all know we could get it for free etc, just it might not help the coversation, though I see your points of course.
[/quote]
this makes sense.
Overall that was kind of my feeling that it just wouldnt be good for the Rep of the site.
Which from this point… is why I never really pointed out this idea to anybody else.
I think SA does a great job of letting us know about free plugins that are available.
And as far as rules go… i Value this community & website much more than I care about free speech on the forums.
So if these are the rules… then I will gladly abide.
I dont agree with it. Its mad that people who want to make music & sell it complain about being stolen from via Downloads, yet use Cracks themselves.
Each to their own though… you’ll never stop the flood.
The lack of cash thing is BS. Try not drinking, smoking and buying sh1 t for a couple of months.
Long term - Something inventive rather than punitive needs to happen.
If there was even a lease & buy outright option on plugins - like a top-up / pay as you go, time limited system - like 30days for a 5’er or whatever (without charging through the nose…), then maybe it would be better. Certainly within peoples pricepoint.
Some you would renew - others not.
The Kid’s could even pay by Mobile phone. No dongle.
At the end of the day we all know that having too much ends up in zapping creativity… so who’s the loser in the end?
I think a lot of people do the same thing here.
There are a lot of products which i have downloaded first, tried it and if i have liked it forked out a fortune for it! I did it with Traktor Scratch PRO, Ableton and a few other products. I know some of my friends who have both the above, cracked and patched and they have never had any problems BUT I wouldn’t want to risk it, especially if your using them in a LIVE environment.
Also, i think there is a sense of achievement when Mr Parcel Force turns up on your door at 10AM in the morning with a delivery for you! I know i was on cloud 9 when i ordered Ableton and got it delivered, tore the packaging open and installed it straight away!!
Now… Illegal downloads of music… guess thats a touchy subject BUT i will admit, majority… id say about 80% of my music is downloaded from blog sites which are readily available… BUT my argument is, if its there, your going to have it.
me personally i like everything to be in original format with a nice neat box i’m quite anal like that so i dont use cracked software buy pirate dvd’s or cd’s or clothes etc if i cant afford it i dont buy it simples!!
i find the sense of achievment is much better when you’ve saved like housejak said
also with music making software imagine making a killer track and then your cracked copy of ableton f*cks up and you lose it all not a risk worth taking imo
if you want to try before you buy why not download the demo??? i’m not judging anyone who does use cracked software each to there own and all that but its not for me:cool:
waiting on SA to come in here and lock this thread and throw it out the window
I would say that it is not spoken about much as that is a form of promotion and people in the industry trying to earn money promoting free stuff does not make good business sense. Let’s face it we are all part of this.
There seems to be a very different set of rules/morals for harware and software. Would you walk into the local music store, see a Moog, stick it under your arm and walk out? However would you download a crack synth of a Moog?
I personally believe in karma and I would like people to buy my stuff and that is the reason I would not promote using cracks.
[quote]howiegroove (11/07/2010)[hr]waiting on SA to come in here and lock this thread and throw it out the window[/quote]
I think its being discussed in an mature adult way Howie - Nothing Pro-Crack has been said… and the concensus is definitely against.
But lets be honest - Its a secret black market behaviour… most of the participants are not going to actually post here & discuss why they do it, because they realise that its indefensible.
Regardless of the childish attitude - what anyone traditionally says about not having the cash - or brains to work out how to buy the stuff the want to use… they 100% know deep down in their hearts that its wrong.
You are either in or you are out. Buy what you use. Otherwise you are not committed.
personally i really don’t see the problem in cracked software as long as the person downloading it buys the software after they decide they like it and will continue to use it, although many companies are hit quite hard by the pirates and claim to loose x amount to the illegal market i truly wonder how much they also gain from it. i personally would have never known about some of these companies with out downloading illegal software or having it sent to me but have since been spending money on many of their products.
it also make me wonder when products come out illegally before they are released to buy, if the company its self has figured out that sometimes illegal software can boost sales and released it on pirate sites themselves.
i read in future music a while back that a researcher discovered that illegal music down loaders where also the biggest digital download spenders, maybe this is also true in the software market (i don’t know)
imo though if you like and you buy it then its not going to damage the industry but their are always those that never will, who claim they can’t afford it for what ever reason.
Think this argumet about downloading cracked copies to try something out is pure BS. With most of these pieces of software you can download a demo before you buy it. Might not be fully functional but you can still get a really good idea of what it does. Traktor and Ableton have fully functional demos that you can download from their websites and that last for a couple of weeks, so there’s no excuse for downloading cracked copies of them.
[quote]Rob_E (12/07/2010)[hr]Think this argumet about downloading cracked copies to try something out is pure BS. With most of these pieces of software you can download a demo before you buy it. Might not be fully functional but you can still get a really good idea of what it does. Traktor and Ableton have fully functional demos that you can download from their websites and that last for a couple of weeks, so there’s no excuse for downloading cracked copies of them.[/quote]
i agree with you that many have very generous fully functional demo’s but on the flip there are also many that don’t.
one of the most illegally downloaded and installed bits of software is (apparently) cubase, you can’t download a demo for this or at least you couldn’t last time i looked.
i don’t agree with using illegal software but i also don’t agree that people use donation ware with out donating its no different
I really agree with Jon. However, I think that there are alot of software companies out there that will make a program and not give at least a 2 week trial to have the end user try it out. I think thats just crap. Anyways…
I agree that although there are some demos out there, not everything has demos. Also the ones that do either have very annoying limitations or add a noise every few seconds.
When you’re trying out something to know whether you are willing to part with 100s of £, you want to use it inside and out as the real thing.
It’s like hardware, when i’m trying out a midi keyboard I don’t expect there to be keys missing or for it to start singing at me every few seconds.
I’m all for buying my own software, but i’m not willing to pay 100s of £ for something that I find I don’t feel comfortable with or that I never end up using.
Do I think illegal downloading is right? No, of course not. I do however think that software companies need to change with the times if they are to combat the issue.
They need to either do what music companies / artists do and give out their software for free whilst setting up a donation ability, so people can donate what they can afford.
Or they should ALL do what a lot of Antivirus, etc software do and have it where you can use the full software for example of 30 days, then afterwards the software needs to be either bought or removed from the computer.
[quote]roben (12/07/2010)[hr]I agree that although there are some demos out there, not everything has demos. Also the ones that do either have very annoying limitations or add a noise every few seconds.
When you’re trying out something to know whether you are willing to part with 100s of £, you want to use it inside and out as the real thing.
It’s like hardware, when i’m trying out a midi keyboard I don’t expect there to be keys missing or for it to start singing at me every few seconds.
I’m all for buying my own software, but i’m not willing to pay 100s of £ for something that I find I don’t feel comfortable with or that I never end up using.
Do I think illegal downloading is right? No, of course not. I do however think that software companies need to change with the times if they are to combat the issue.
They need to either do what music companies / artists do and give out their software for free whilst setting up a donation ability, so people can donate what they can afford.
Or they should ALL do what a lot of Antivirus, etc software do and have it where you can use the full software for example of 30 days, then afterwards the software needs to be either bought or removed from the computer.[/quote]
with the donation software its the same roben, people take with out donating and although the down loaders don’t like to see it like that, its the same as taking any software. although in the eyes of the law they are completely different downloading donation ware and illegal downloads either way you are not supporting the coders.
[quote]jon_fisher (12/07/2010)[hr][quote]roben (12/07/2010)[hr]I agree that although there are some demos out there, not everything has demos. Also the ones that do either have very annoying limitations or add a noise every few seconds.
When you’re trying out something to know whether you are willing to part with 100s of £, you want to use it inside and out as the real thing.
It’s like hardware, when i’m trying out a midi keyboard I don’t expect there to be keys missing or for it to start singing at me every few seconds.
I’m all for buying my own software, but i’m not willing to pay 100s of £ for something that I find I don’t feel comfortable with or that I never end up using.
Do I think illegal downloading is right? No, of course not. I do however think that software companies need to change with the times if they are to combat the issue.
They need to either do what music companies / artists do and give out their software for free whilst setting up a donation ability, so people can donate what they can afford.
Or they should ALL do what a lot of Antivirus, etc software do and have it where you can use the full software for example of 30 days, then afterwards the software needs to be either bought or removed from the computer.[/quote]
with the donation software its the same roben, people take with out donating and although the down loaders don’t like to see it like that, its the same as taking any software. although in the eyes of the law they are completely different downloading donation ware with out donating and illegal downloads either way you are not supporting the coders.
[/quote]
It seems like most people kinda agree with me to a certain extent.
I definitely didnt start this thread to get a pro-crack movement going…
I was really more interested in hearing what everybody thought about the subject.
Also I was interested in seeing what would happen if I posted a thread like this.
The SA community did not disappoint and approached this topic with logic & reason. lol no pun intended.
My experience for this was specifically related to cubase. I purchased cubase after reading reviews & made it my choice for DAW. After spending a few months on it and joining this website, I became really interested in Ableton. Unfortunately for me, I was kinda Pissed at myself for spending the money on cubase. That was my biggest reason for downloading ableton. It was this website & the tutorials that gave me enough experience with the program to justify another $500 and make my ableton purchase.
The whole experience of going through this process, was a learning one. After spending the extra cash, my wariness for purchasing software came into play. This being the biggest reason for my current formula of… if you havnt tried it… dont buy it. I simply dont have enough money to buy software in the dark.
Although I will most definitely agree to the fact that,we all know it is wrong.
I do think it is a good point regarding software companies and demos. If they gave demos for the software… People are less likely to do the downloading thing. This is probably the best method for suggesting to new members on the site about the best course of action. I’m definitely gunna remember this one.
To be honest I’m really really surprised ‘the powers that be’ haven’t locked / deleted this thread.
It’s good to see we can have an adult discussion about a very serious and regular subject that happens on a day to day basis and not get hushed quicker than a national of north Korea.
[quote]roben (12/07/2010)[hr]To be honest I’m really really surprised ‘the powers that be’ haven’t locked / deleted this thread.
It’s good to see we can have an adult discussion about a very serious and regular subject that happens on a day to day basis and not get hushed quicker than a national of north Korea.[/quote]
lollll.
+1 to that.
I was kinda worried they were gunna like ban me for even mentioning the subject.