I read the magazines, I watch the tutorial videos, all of these have amazing advice from experts.
These experts all have like 20+ years experience, so why are they not the ones with the world wide tours. Shouldn’t it be super easy for all these sound designers to whip out amazing tracks?
Who wouldnt want all that fame, a big paycheck and all the time you want to do music.
heres what I think the the possibilities are
-The Dance music scene only likes young faces
-Us young folks have more time to practice and get amazing skills
-The younger generation builds off trends faster then the older generation can
Idk it just seems messed up that i see like no 50+ people with a massive tour yet theyre the ones teaching us everything via media and stuff
A great sound engineer doesn’t have to be a musical genius in that sense that he/she can make hits.
He/she does probably know how to make the most of that hit song 
Oakenfold, danny tenaglia, carl cox, larent garnier, fransois k,
These guys have been doinin it since the where young. All have lables, managemnt companies etc.
When you get older… Traveling the world as a DJ gets harder to stomach.
You want to get in to the business side of it.
The entertainment industry is about glits and glamor. Nobody wants to see old farts on stage…unless youre an old fart yourself. The majority of music buyers/listeners are 24-35. Thats excluding the tweens which buy a **** load of music related stuff but as we all know cause we were young once…they all think old is not cool. Also in a social sense people tend to stick with what their peers and age group are doing or are in to. No matter how good the music is our generation will have a slightly negative bias if someone older is producing the music.
To build off of what Phil said, it’s true, these guys are still around touring and producing albums. Tiesto is another one. He’s out there all the time.
As far as your specific question, new artists are usually young because they are still dreamers and have nothing holding them back at all, among other things.
These sound designers/engineers usually have steady jobs, a family, and no drug additions or they have already tried and were never picked up. I know some great engineers, but they can’t write to save their ***. I have always looked at most engineers as music fans who are brilliant with technology and have a creative mind, but lack in musical ability. They just want to contribute someway or another.
Also, getting a big contract isn’t an easy thing mate. It’s probably something like 10% or less of all the signed artists in the world make it to the stage that Skrillex or any of these other guys that were mentioned have. Just because you get a deal still doesn’t mean you’re not going to be sleeping out of a van. I have seen it happen many times.
Cool, thanks everyone
[quote]djsrone (09/02/2012)[hr]The entertainment industry is about glits and glamor. Nobody wants to see old farts on stage…unless youre an old fart yourself.
Unless your an insanely awesome old fart :w00t:
Two words:
David Guetta
[quote]Roben (10/02/2012)[hr]Two words:
David Guetta[/quote]
Probably the only dude who doesnt deserve it… Honestly have no clue why I hate him, maybe its to do with the accusations of Ghost Producers or maybe its to do with how mainstream he has made Electro Music (some argue its good but I think its gotten tooo mainstream now…)
But others who are old include Tiesto, Benny Benassi, Deadmau5, Armin Van Buuren, etc. etc. LOADS are not young. In fact in the top DJ’s list the top 5 are all older people before Avicii comes in at 6th.
Why do some people dislike Guetta so much?
He took a path to get where he is. I doubt that he had money to pay for ghost producers till he became rich and famous already purely from his own skills.
He’s now approaching it as a business and paying people (if true) to produce whilst he works the crowds and tours. That’s not a bad business model and, I expect, he’s paying the ghost(s) a decent amount of cash to produce for him. Plus we have no idea how much or how little input he has in the content of those ‘ghosted’ tracks.
I just don’t understand the ‘hate’.
[quote]jonsloan (10/02/2012)[hr]Why do some people dislike Guetta so much?
He took a path to get where he is. I doubt that he had money to pay for ghost producers till he became rich and famous already purely from his own skills.
He’s now approaching it as a business and paying people (if true) to produce whilst he works the crowds and tours. That’s not a bad business model and, I expect, he’s paying the ghost(s) a decent amount of cash to produce for him. Plus we have no idea how much or how little input he has in the content of those ‘ghosted’ tracks.
I just don’t understand the ‘hate’.[/quote]
I totally agree, if you’re doing over 90 gigs a year I’d really like to see you have time to sit down in the studio and build and finish a track to professional standard.
I personally believe he gets the ideas, maybe even the parts and gets an engineer to create it.
Which really when you think about is fair game considering he’s busy, after all he’s already proved himself a producer in his earlier stages.
I wouldn’t say Deadmau5 is old by the way, wtf. Think he’s my age or possibly a little older. I’m the same age as Chris Lake, wait… you’re going to tell me he’s old now?
How old ARE you? People in their 20s and 30s are NOT old FYI.
Lol my bad Roben, I only checked his age now 1981…
Thought he was a 70’s dude as well (in his 40’s not early 30’s).
Still he’s not young… Im 21 BTW.
And about Guetta, well I think thats where producers need to give themselves time, 90 gigs a year = 90 days you cant work on tracks.
There are 365 days in a year, thats 275 days he can work on his tracks.
I am not saying spend every day you get without gigs to work on tracks, that’d be a horrible life, but spending at least 100 days = maybe 7 or so professionally produced tracks (cant really say personally, I cant produced “Professional” so I dont know how long it takes).
So time shouldnt be an excuse really…
And about the Ghost Producers, my hate for having them is to do with accreditation really.
I hate the idea that someone can be producing a chunk of a track (Doesnt matter who’s ideas are in the track, someone is still producing a chunk of it!) that person should definately get his name in the title… How hard is it for Guetta to do David Guetta feat. “Insert Ghost Producers name here!”.
Now he/she is no longer a Ghost Producer…
Guetta also avoids the “He uses Ghost Producers” argument.
How old is old? Older than you? Older than your parents? As old as your parents?
It’s relative and all a little pointless. People are people. Boxes don’t help.
[quote]jonsloan (10/02/2012)[hr]How old is old? Older than you? Older than your parents? As old as your parents?
It’s relative and all a little pointless. People are people. Boxes don’t help.[/quote]
Again I agree. Music’s music, there’s beautiful music from people of all ages from kids to pensioners, I honestly can’t say I make preference over one thing due to the age of the artist.
If I dig their music, I dig them, I don’t decide whether i’ll like a track based on their age.
“omg he’s 82 therefore I must dislike his music… oh but wait, i can’t stop listening to it and I can’t stop this need to dance like a nutter… sh*t!”
Well, that calculation is a bit off. Remember it’s going to take a minimum of a day to get somewhere and a day to get back as an average and taking into account that he travels the world to DJ. So, you’re already losing 270 days from the year just gigging.
Take five weeks for holidays and you lose another 35 days.
Then maybe, what a day every two weeks for business meetings? Possibly more. You lose another 26 days.
= 331 days
Time with his wife and kids perhaps?
Suddenly there’s no time in the studio.
Yeah, these are made up numbers but none of us live his life so don’t have the right to second guess his decisions really.
The ghost producers get paid. If they want credit and probably significantly less money, they can and may already produce under their own names.
You know what, I’d be more than happy to produce incognito for Guetta if it guaranteed me enough money to give me the lifestyle I wanted. Especially as it would involve spending a lot of time doing what I love to do.
For some people the ‘fame’ that comes with success is not an actual good thing.
Jon touches AGAIN on a really good point Mistro, whilst you or I would like recognition for our music, some people are happy making good money making music for others.
Think of the benefits… guaranteed good money in a day where it’s so difficult to make money from your music, they get to spend each day doing what they love - making music - more time to spend with their friends and family because they’re not jetting off everywhere living out of a suitcase.
Some people also prefer not to gig, maybe they arn’t comfortable gigging, maybe - like some songwriters - they’re more happy in the studio than behind the decks.
Did you know that Benni Benassi isn’t actually just benni, it’s his cousin Alle who does all the engineering whilst benni does the gigs. There is a future music video of them and he actually says how it works for him, he’s not interested in the gigs.
I understand where you’re trying to go with this argument as i’ve often questioned it myself, but it’s only really very lately that I’ve come to realise the bigger picture.
Really it’s no different to songwriters who have singers sing their songs for them, which has been going on for decades.
Aah pretty much broke my argument there.
About the days thing, a gig is what 1 hour? Obviously you want to stay for the rest of it, = the whole night really. But those extra days in between travelling, you can spend that time working on the basics of a new track using laptops. You dont need a full studio with todays tech…
People arguing that they are “Hardware” only, well thats their fault for pinning themselves down…
And also about Ghost Producers, I guess thats true but thats what an alias is for aint it?
Daft Punk are not fully known, they could prolly walk down a road filled with electro enthusiasts and not be recognized even today. Same applies to people like Deadmau5 where some people probably assume he sleeps with that damn mau5 head on even though he does take it off in his gigs.
I guess I see where you are getting at if a Ghost Producer does not want credit at all, in which case I think its fair to take back what I have said about him…
EDIT: @Roben, yeah I guess it all comes down to the person :hehe:
Anyway, music is music, cant lie I actually really enjoyed that new Titanium Track, though it did have a segment that sounded awfully a lot like another track, just cant seem to remember what 
Not to sound like a broken record, but I agree with everything Jon & Roben have stated. Except there is one part of the argument that doesn’t hold up.
You cannot make the arguement that Guetta needs a ghost writer because of time constraints. Skrillex’s (another artist that I can’t undstand why people hate) last tour was 322 days out of the year and he still created Bangarang. He did it all while on the road.
I think it’s safe to say that we really don’t know why, but the argument should be that it should not matter why. If it works for him then it works for him.
If you look at Guetta as a producer (which is excatly what he is) instead of an artist then it doesn’t matter what he has written. A producers job isn’t to write music. It’s to make the final decisions on what comes across his desk and turn it into the best song it could possibly be. He’s consider an artist only for the songs he writes.
Also, as artists we all have our goto people for help and advice. You’re surely not going to list them as contributors and pay them are you? If so, all of my songs would have to included like 5 or 6 featured artist (don’t get any ideas Jon;)) and I’d be broke. In the end, you make the final decision, but their input could drastically change the outcome of your song.
No one person truly creates anything by themself in life. Whether its music, art or anything else. That’s what pisses me off about people who get mad at other people for admitting that they had help with something. It’s very hypocritical. This isn’t a stab at you Mistro, as you’re a good person and made legitimate points toward the arguement. It’s for those that just hate because someone else got something that they think they deserve. Rant over*
Well not everyone wants to be a superstar DJ. I mean your assuming anyone with any knowledge on music tech wants a worldwide tour which isnt the case. There are millions of people with hundreds of thousands of years combined experience but they might put it to other uses. Music tech is such a wide varied field and doesnt just apply to dance music and DJing.
With every David Guetta or Rhianna or Lady Gaga whatever, there are teams of people with probably a lot of music know how that work on their tracks/albums at various stages of the production process.
[quote]Fluxyz (09/02/2012)[hr]
-The younger generation builds off trends faster then the older generation can
[/quote]
LOL!
Mike Koglin just released “Dyno” with Genix this track has been No.1 for i don’t know how many weeks.
And Mike K. is no spring chicken!! he’s been around for a loooong time!!!