CLR / Dark Techno Production Thread

wouterdewitte · May 29, 2011, 8:25am

cool video again Jamie!

You heave a very nice way of explaining things and make it visual…

You rock!!

ICN · May 29, 2011, 8:58am

[quote]5id (29/05/2011)[hr]If you have some nice samples set up in simpler you can click simplers header bar and change it to sampler.

I love the filters in sampler :D[/quote]

I clicked something by accident yesterday & it said simpler -> sampler, or something like it… will definitely look at that 5id - Nice one

jonsloan · May 29, 2011, 10:31am

Hey Jamie, another good tut thanks.

Just watched some of your piano pieces too. Wow, you’ve certainly put the hours in there.

jonsloan · May 29, 2011, 11:04am

[quote]ICN (22/05/2011)[hr]The other bit of the original vid.<EMBED height=349 type=application/x-shockwave-flash width=425 src=- YouTube allowfullscreen=“true” allowscriptaccess=“always”>[/quote]

Loved this. Turning that sh!tty sample into something completely different and soooo much better. Nice.

I think using Jamie’s wet/dry chain splitter idea would work well with this.

ICN · May 29, 2011, 11:22am

Thanks Jon!

Autofilters ftw!

slender · May 29, 2011, 11:30am

[quote]JamieinNC (29/05/2011)[hr]Yessssssssss…

[quote]ICN (29/05/2011)[hr]A Vid of polysexuals in bed with Chris L?

[/quote]

I messed up screenflow so the sound from Ableton doesn’t start until a few minutes in, so just give it time. That’s my fault. I had to mute something within Screenflow and it muted everything before that…

[/quote]

I do this :)

egg2 · May 29, 2011, 11:51am

Me too i picked this up from steve dirty bass !

Still a great tute jaime !!!

ICN · May 29, 2011, 11:56am

Steve DB? I think I know his name from white-in midi site ?

Theres a cryptic clue for ya

egg2 · May 29, 2011, 12:08pm

He does a v cool mastering too!!

ICN · May 29, 2011, 12:19pm

I know his Voidloss stuff - Some cracking tracks

JamieinNC · May 29, 2011, 12:19pm

[quote]wouterdewitte (29/05/2011)[hr]cool video again Jamie!

You heave a very nice way of explaining things and make it visual…

You rock!![/quote]

Thanks Wouter! Hope it stimulates some ideas for you with your tracks.

[quote]jonsloan (29/05/2011)[hr]Hey Jamie, another good tut thanks.

Just watched some of your piano pieces too. Wow, you’ve certainly put the hours in there.[/quote]

Thanks Jon! Yes, the piano is my main instrument and always will be my strongest musical tool. I just love the sound of a really dark tune by Beethoven sometimes. Haha. But yeah, almost 35 years I’ve been playing the piano!

[quote]slender (29/05/2011)[hr]

I do this :)[/quote]

I know.

[quote]egg2 (29/05/2011)[hr]Me too i picked this up from steve dirty bass !

Still a great tute jaime !!![/quote]

Thanks Egg! I might actually expand that b1tch into a tune! After I made the video I thought it actually sounded pretty cool! Now that the scales portion of the tutorials are finished I might explore that track for a few days and make more videos with it.

Jamie

ICN · May 29, 2011, 12:23pm

Heres a dark fkker

ICN · May 29, 2011, 12:46pm

Some old gold from Steve DB

[url]http://www.myspace.com/dirtybassvoidloss[/url]

[url]http://soundcloud.com/voidloss[/url]

Great stuff here. Has really helped me figure a few things out.

Been a long time coming this…

I am going to be posting this hints, tips and production guide, as a series of hopefully helpful reference notes.
These tips are based on my own learned, and discovered skills I have gathered over the last 10 years or so.
I hope none of this comes across as condescending. I in no way consider myself a perfect producer (whatever that means). I’m still learning, and I hope to continue to do so for a long time.
These guides are by no means hard and fast rules, more like references to help, inspire (hopefully) and also places to begin exploration from.
I’ll present this in little chapters.
Some may be more techie stuff, some may be more like hints or tips.
They are presented in no order of importance, but just as they came to me<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = “urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office” /><o:p></o:p>

1: Complementary kicks.

Sometimes it can be frustrating getting those really big, solid kicks.
A technique I sometimes use is doubling up the kick drums.
Generally I’ll find, or more often make, a kick drum I like with good solid sub to mid bass presence, but it still seems to need extra sturdiness.
Sometimes this can be a simple EQ or compression problem, but sometimes Im looking for a more dynamic sound. In this situation I’ll find or make (generally I tend to mix a synthesised kick with a sampled kick) another kick with more presence in the high bass to top end frequencies. I then blend the 2nd kick over the 1st by chopping out the lower frequencies of the 2nd, so it sits “on top” of the 1st. After then compressing the 2 this gives a nice full present and crisp kick, with loads of bottom end woomph and nice punchy mid and top. Also, a lot of people seem to neglect the top end of their kicks. A nice crisp, balanced top end on a kick drum with help the groove relationship between itself and the hats/high end percussion. <o:p></o:p>__________________<o:p></o:p><o:p> </o:p>2: Sub rumble. For nice deep ambient sub rumble in tracks, one of the techniques I sometimes use is to get a nice subby kick or bass sound, and run it through some monstrous cathedral size reverb. I then sample the result, pull out the initial sound so I end up with just the deep verb on its own.
Then you can slap this under your kicks in a track, sidechained to the kicks, and it really gives a nice cavernous rumble.
For some interesting sub madness sometimes its also nice to make a subtle bass melody using this sample, and have that rumbling away under the kicks. <o:p></o:p>__________________<o:p></o:p><o:p> </o:p>3: Pattern length. Dance music has become increasingly easier to make due to the accessibility of the technology. And probably in some ways techno has become one of the easiest musics to make at it’s basic level. “Just mash some loops together” etc With people getting a little tired of over loopy-ness it really is time producers started getting a little more clever with their programming. One of the things I like to do to enliven the 4x4, 16 step nature of techno us to use unusual pattern/loop/phrase lengths. Sometimes, for example, I’ll make an intricate hat pattern and spread it over 20 steps, instead of the usual 16. It means the pattern rolls over on it’s own separate groove, but is still in time to the 4x4 beat, giving a jazz like spontaneous sounding flare. This simple technique, although it can make programming a little more laborious, can be applied to any part of your tune. Bass lines, leads, whatever, and when varying pattern lengths mix together you get some interesting shifting groove effects.<o:p></o:p>__________________<o:p></o:p><o:p> </o:p>4. Just close your eyes Make your ears do the work. This is music after all. Sometime screens, sequence patterns, knobs and buttons can all act as a distraction from the basic heart of your project ie. SOUND. Close your eyes and listen to the music. This is a very helpful way to sit back and reflect on the sequence or indeed a valuable way if “seeing into” the mix. Sounds simple and obvious, but do you do it? It’s great, especially when things all get a bit hectic in the mix <o:p></o:p>__________________<o:p></o:p><o:p> </o:p>Well, you can let the machine "humanise" it for you. But I tend to prefer programming my velocity changes, make em my own rather than some part of an algortythm. <o:p></o:p><o:p> </o:p>Velocities? No rules, but the note velocity can play as much a part of the melody/phrase, as the actual note the instrument plays. <o:p></o:p><o:p> </o:p>___________________<o:p></o:p><o:p> </o:p>6: EQ and separation This whole process is an art unto itself, and there is no hard and fast method that will ensure you get a clean separated mix. Here are some hints and tips though. Visualise your mix. I see the mix as a side running bar chart. (This is just my example, your own mental picture should be something you yourself can visualise) with the sounds running from top to bottom on the chart, top being the high end, bottom being the bass frequencies. As in the diagram (Picture has been lost).<o:p></o:p><o:p> </o:p>I wont label the pic with herz values as it is just a basic guide.
In fact when making music I rarely pay that much attention to the frequency value at all, I just use my ears, which at the end of the day is what its all about. Id rather not encourage people to use numbers and values instead of their ears.
But yes, I will look into a rough frequency guide for splitting up Treble, Mid and bass. <o:p></o:p>

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The bigger the sound, the thicker it is on the mental picture, and vica versa.
The object is to cut and fit the sounds so they fill the graph from top to bottom, but overlap as little as possible.
Placing the sounds visually in your head makes it a lot easier to separate your mix.
I also split the bass mentally into 3 bands. Low bass, mid bass, high bass. And the same for the mid range and the top end. And then mentally picture where each sound lies.
May look a bit or sound a bit odd, but drawing a mental picture really does help a lot.
Oh as an aside the EQ process I use and you should always use for mixing is Subtractive EQ. Something that has been discussed loads on here, but Ill go into it at some point. <o:p></o:p>__________________<o:p></o:p><o:p> </o:p>7: Edits. No more high pass filters please!!! There is so much more you can do creatively. Here is an idea for example….. Record the whole track, cut out sections where you would like edits and then apply effects, resample, and cut back into the track. There are some fantastically creative effects out there, and lots of them are freeware. Use them. There is a certain buzz when working for the moment, but the rush to finish a track leads to lazy programming. Always go back a few days or a week later to a so called “finished” track, and you can then approach it without the creative “fever” clouding your final production. Its good to approach a track 1st from the more creative and spontaneous side, and then later from the more considered and clinical side. <o:p></o:p>

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8: Less is more.

Sometimes no matter what you do with eq, the mix is muddy and confusing, or too busy.
Try zeroing all the sliders on the desk.
Bring the elements back in one by one, in order of importance (in your eyes).
So that would be, main groove elements, then main melody etc
With each sound you bring back carefully sculpt it into the mix with eq, and as each new sound comes in, you can then also adjust the sounds already in the mix to accommodate as well. It saves running over the whole desk in some kind of EQ frenzy trying to get everything right all at once.
At some point you may find you still have some elements left, but the mix is full, and the groove is tight. You may then do well to discard these leftover elements (it may be painful, but it is worth it). Or maybe use them in the tune, but when you bring them into the tune (in the sequence) take out another sound that fills the same place in the mix.
This will keep the mix from cluttering and also provide some nice changes. <o:p></o:p>

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9: Super Grooves.

To improve your groove creation skills you might try the following exercise.
Many people start a track with the basic staple elements, Kick, bass then hats and main riff or percussion.
To make a real killer groove, don’t use a kick or any hats to begin with.
Try building a groove that rocks within the 4x4 environment, but stands on it’s own without kick and offbeat hats.
Once you’ve done this it is more than likely that when you add the kick and the hats this groove will lock so tight you’ll cream your pants.<o:p></o:p>

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10: Broken Beats.

Although I love the broken beat, I hear a bit more getting made these days that misses the point. Simply making standard techno, where the offbeat is the counterpoint and drive, and then moving the kick elsewhere doesn’t really work the groove to its full potential.
When you dive into broken beat, the whole groove can swing a different way if done properly, but the drive of the 4 to the floor ideal can still be retained.
When the kicks are moved off the 4, then the counterpoint for them also moves.
The offbeat is no longer the 3rd, 7th, 11th and 15th step per bar. It shifts with the new kick arrangement.
Play with this, you can end up with a really pounding but *** shaking off-kilter groove, but still with the emphasis on the kicks. <o:p></o:p>

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11: Experimentation

The key to originality and creativity in any art form is experimentation.
Its bad practice in my opinion to look at every track you make with the expectation of releasing it. Some tracks are useful experiments and it’s ok to leave them as they are. <o:p></o:p>

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12: Instrument tuning.

Instrument tuning can be very interesting to play with. By this I mean non conventionally melodic parts, such as percussion hits, hi hats etc
Try this experiment.

Make a basic percussive groove: Kick, sub, hats, and some mid range percussion, maybe some kind of synth stab as well.
Now try tuning all the elements to the same note, say C.
Probably sounds a bit over resonant and uncomfortable I expect. But it`s a good starting point.

Now try retuning your groove into a scale (or chord essentially), say, C major.
If you don’t know your scales and chords there are plenty of resources on the net.
So take all the elements and tune them in the C major scale.
Essentially treat each separate sound as a note on the same keyboard, and play a chord using all your various sounds.
Sounds pretty interesting huh?
It’s a great starting point for a huge area of experimentation. <o:p></o:p>

________<o:p></o:p>

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slender · May 29, 2011, 5:22pm

[quote]ICN (29/05/2011)[hr]Heres a dark fkker<EMBED height=349 type=application/x-shockwave-flash width=425 src=Voidloss - Tree of Wyrd - YouTube allowfullscreen=“true” allowscriptaccess=“always”>[/quote]

Love it - good to see Jamie can dance as well

JamieinNC · May 29, 2011, 6:13pm

Hahah! Dayummit, I wondered what that little beeping red light in the closet was!

I used to be that hot, then I stopped going to the gym and started sitting in front of Ableton all the time…

J

[quote]slender (29/05/2011)[hr][quote]ICN (29/05/2011)[hr]Heres a dark fkker<EMBED height=349 type=application/x-shockwave-flash width=425 src=Voidloss - Tree of Wyrd - YouTube allowfullscreen=“true” allowscriptaccess=“always”>[/quote]

Love it - good to see Jamie can dance as well :P[/quote]

lenners · May 29, 2011, 8:16pm

Great thread guys!!

ICN · May 29, 2011, 8:48pm

Cheers B!

ICN · May 29, 2011, 11:48pm

I can hear birds singing on a fence over at Jamies house :hehe:

Subject_1 · May 30, 2011, 12:11am

Amazing Thread interesting stuff you guys are converting me into a techno head! ive been really getting into it lately

JamieinNC · May 30, 2011, 1:22am

Haha, I love that ICN sees the video before I get a chance to post it! Good stuff…

[quote]ICN (29/05/2011)[hr]I can hear birds singing ona fenceover at Jamies house :hehe:[/quote]